Brexit

[SteelCityShoes]

And this is the problem, we held a prominent position in the EU with a veto to use when we saw fit. As a nation we are acting like spoilt children. This entire thing has been an exercise of what not to do. We aren’t even in charge of our own negotiations. It was always going to happen, I know Leavers who votes remain just to avoid a mess like this.

The ballot should have said leave or remain then if leave hard or soft Brexit. The problem is no one expected us to leave so clearly there wasn’t enough thought put into the entire thing.

I am in favour of another referendum if it’s like the above, votes won’t be diluted as the hard/soft question is secondary. But then at least they can get on with it either way with a proper mandate. I’m past caring at this point, we’ve already lost some of our biggest assets with more set to go if this “deal” goes wrong.

At least we’ll all be broke together...except the fat cats, the politicians, the bankers moving their bases, the CEOs going offshore, the international coroporations... at least the regular folk will be broke together 

[jacko]

Must have gone to the wrong school I thought out meant out and leave meant  leave. Nothing to do with good or bad deal. The worst deal of all is remaining.

[SteelCityShoes]

We are leaving for gods sake, both the Conservatives and Labour are committed to it, I’m sick of hearing that. They’re just trying to make sure regular working class people don’t get screwed over by it, as we’re the only ones who will suffer for a bad Brexit. It’s not like leaving a party where you just walk out of the door

[rapidlocks]

leaving the eu but maybe not actually leaving , if still in customs union and single market then we cannot make our own trade deals and we cannot control imigration , we will still be bound by the eu laws and rules , except , with no say in these rules , so basically in without any say , from rule maker to rule taker.

even a devout leaver would rather stay in and be a rule maker than kind of leave to become a rule taker.

the main thing that scares me about leaving with no deal , is who is going to run the country to make it work , from what ive seen of government and mp's , im struggling to see anyone capable of making this work.

i still prefer leave , but not at any cost and certainly not to be a rule taker still bound by eu rules and laws with no say in them , if it was this or remain then id vote remain

[fred77]

On 4/4/2019 at 11:23 AM, SteelCityShoes said:

We are leaving for gods sake, both the Conservatives and Labour are committed to it, I’m sick of hearing that. They’re just trying to make sure regular working class people don’t get screwed over by it, as we’re the only ones who will suffer for a bad Brexit. It’s not like leaving a party where you just walk out of the door

Spoken as a Remainer - People who don't believe in them selves - don't believe in their Country.     
Which describes you.   Grow some backbone 

Regular working class want no deal.  Will be some hardship, but also see the eventual advantages.


Only Brexit Party now - Labour and Tory united under common cause

[rapidlocks]

with all the best will in the world , it is unlikely that the brexit party would or could win a general election , judging by the mood in the country it is unlikely that either of the 2 main parties will get a majority to govern , face it the conservatives are a mess and corbyn is as electable as a dustbin , with better leadership i think labour would have capitalised and won with a landslide , but due to their leadership will find themselves in the same boat as the conservatives .

face it steve , the likely outcome is a severly hung parliament with conservative and labour both being far weaker than they are now , with the rest including brexit party , ukip , greens etc all diluting any near majority , so a coalition must be formed , though a coalition with so many opposing views will cause 1 huge stalemate that will see little get done as it will be near impossible to pass anything worthwhile as too many will block it .

i would still vote leave , but i have grave concerns as to whether our house of commons could and would build leaving into something that would see us grow and prosper , i really dont believe they have the balls or the ability to make leave on no deal work sadly . leaving us in as a rule taker is pointless as in a worse position than if we remain as at least we have a veto and are part of what makes the rules .

the choices are really 

1) remain in eu

2) leave with the tory deal tweaked to labours liking making it a worse deal as still in but with zero say 

3) leave with no deal and pray that those in the commons can get there acts together and make it work 

sadly for many  staying in may win the day , which conspiracy theorists may believe was the plan all along .

[Mick Friend]

I voted remain - because I am married to a Spaniard, I travel often to Spain by road with my 3 dogs and I drink only Spanish wine and coffee. Last visit I stocked up on wine. But now it has extended I have no idea where we are. Vets are saying dogs will need an annual rabies, while now it is every 3 years and after the shot a blood test one month later - WHY it is the UK quarantine laws not the EU so why will it change?  I now have 5 year plan - Move back to Spain, get a Spanish passport, live my life out by the sea. Corbyn was my hope but since being elected I have cancelled my membership and would rather vote for ET 

[jacko]

The stench of trechery about our politicians is sickening.

They all think they know what's better for us poor uneducated souls.

We were told that if we voted out we would be trading on World Trade Rules so why have they moved the goal posts

OUT MEANS OUT. 

[SteelCityShoes]

On 5/4/2019 at 12:10 AM, obdsystems said:

Spoken as a Remainer - People who don't believe in them selves - don't believe in their Country.     
Which describes you.   Grow some backbone 

Regular working class want no deal.  Will be some hardship, but also see the eventual advantages.


Only Brexit Party now - Labour and Tory united under common cause

Leave personal insults at the door.

What advantages do you actually see coming your way?

[SteelCityShoes]

43 minutes ago, jacko said:

The stench of trechery about our politicians is sickening.

They all think they know what's better for us poor uneducated souls.

We were told that if we voted out we would be trading on World Trade Rules so why have they moved the goal posts

OUT MEANS OUT. 

They haven’t. It will default to WTO without a deal, that’s how it works. It’s just not an ideal outcome. Dairy for example will go from 0% to something like a 35% tariff.

These debates make me laugh, do you really think the millionaires and politicians will notice the increased cost on everything? It’s going to be you and me doing the families weekly shop at ASDA. They’re not doing all this for their benefit FFS. Most of them are fully aware they won’t even have a job in the near future because of all this

[kobblers]

Please keep this topic civil or it will be locked.

Cheers. 

Rick.

[SteelCityShoes]

12 hours ago, kobblers said:

Please keep this topic civil or it will be locked.

Cheers. 

Rick.

Rick, you “thanked” the only uncivil post in the entire thread?

The rest of us are having a gentlemanly debate like we would down the local 

[grahamparker]

On 4/4/2019 at 11:23 AM, SteelCityShoes said:

We are leaving for gods sake, both the Conservatives and Labour are committed to it, I’m sick of hearing that. They’re just trying to make sure regular working class people don’t get screwed over by it, as we’re the only ones who will suffer for a bad Brexit. It’s not like leaving a party where you just walk out of the door

I have just re read your comment and have to disagree, most of the politicians don't give a F**K about us. It's all about what's in it for them and how they can line there pockets.

How can any politician "representing" it's constituancy not listen to what the voters wanted in the referendum.

They have just had a bloodied nose in the local elections but i had no real option to show my distrust in them as there where only Coservatice or Labour votes offered in the local council elections.

Grimsby has just got it's first ever Conservative council as a backlash against there stand on Brexit as well as a few more local issues.

What they believe should not matter they are not there for any other reason than to represent there local constituancies and they are failing to do that and the general public have had enough.

If Dairy has a 35% tarif so what if farmers cannot make things work then maybe they should not be farmers in the first place.

 

[rapidlocks]

may of course will stand down , how conservatives then fair in a general election will depend on who becomes leader , the right leader may boost their share of the vote , unless corbyn stands down i cant see labour making ground with corbyn , so think they will do poorly and lose alot of seats  , i suspect we will see a rise in mp's from brexit party , ukip , the new break away party and others , which will make winning a majority very hard for both parties and make passing things in the commons very difficult .

of course after the bloody nose they recieved in the council elections , the last thing may and corbyn want is to get another bloody nose in the euro elections and get a drubbing from the brexit party which is highly likely . it wouldnt surprise me if they come to agreement and a way to agree mays deal and get it through parliament so that they dont need to contest the euro elections , pass the bad deal in a bid to save them from more humiliation especially at the hands of nigel farage again.

may has been told that a deal with corbyn would finish her , but shes finished anyway so nothing to lose and hurt those who have conspired to topple her in the process .

this isnt going to end well for any of us , and looking at the state of british politics who in their right mind is going to want to deal with us .

leave or remain , it just needs putting to bed and moving on , before they make things far worse than they already are 

 

[kobblers]

On 5/6/2019 at 4:55 AM, SteelCityShoes said:

Rick, you “thanked” the only uncivil post in the entire thread?

The rest of us are having a gentlemanly debate like we would down the local 

I was thanking this part of the post: 

"Regular working class want no deal.  Will be some hardship, but also see the eventual advantages.

Only Brexit Party now - Labour and Tory united under common cause"

 

Rick.

[grahamparker]

It is looking increasingly likely that our once in a lifetime vote stood for absolutely NOTHING.

Cheating self serving pigs in parliament all got there noses in the trough and have no connection with reality at all.

In what business in the world do you negotiate with someone when you have to do whatever they say.

I hope we get a general election soon before any deal is concluded as the Brexit party is going to smash the 2 party system wide open.

Although Boris tried he was never going to win. Wankers all of them.

We no longer live in a democratic country.

[rapidlocks]

im certain that until boris the plan was always to remain , too many mp's stand to gain financially to leave , the whole farce has been ran to frustrate and remain, so yes the referendum was pointless as didnt return the answer they desired , so its all about messying the water till we all get fed up and remain .

both parties should be petrified of an election , corbyn has to hope that all those leave voters who vote labour still do so , lib dems are a joke so not in the reckoning , i suspect it will result in a huge shift to the brexit party , so a hung parliment is likely , i suspect a conservative government propped up by the brexit party , who will end up on the opposition bench is unknown as labour could lose enough votes to not be there .

for me corbyn is unelectable , so is the biggest favour that labour can give to the conservatives , so labour have no chance , lib dems have no chance , conservatives i dont believe will gain a majority without buddying up to brexit party , farrage may still play a big part in future .

i think alot of mps stand to lose their comfy wage and expenses and be out of parliment 

[x minit uk]

[petercoulson]

7 hours ago, grahamparker said:

 

Cheating self serving pigs in parliament all got there noses in the trough and have no connection with reality at all.

 

To be fair it's not all of them they didn't all vote against but the majority are as you say. Now they are trying to stop a non deal departure. Well that's going to work well isn't it......Let me see we go to Europe and say we are leaving but not without a deal. I'm thinking if there's a general election might just stand as an independent as the Piss up in brewery party. I think a general election will be a disaster for the main 2 parties and even if the cons won again what difference will that make, perhaps as suggested BJ will call an election for 14th Oct then delay it a little screw them and put Brexit through perhaps that's why JC now doesn't want one now after bleating all this time. The thought of him and Diane Abbot......... We're screwed whatever happens now.

[jacko]

As we speak the EU is in the process of finalising plans for a EU Army. Can you imagine if we remain an German or French politician

will be ordering British Tommie's whom and where to fight.

Churchill must be turning in his grave.

The stench of trechery is ousing out of every corner and cornice of Westminster.

[jacko]

I didn't vote to leave if we got a deal.

I voted to leave.

Don't tell me what I fucking meant

[grahamparker]

23 minutes ago, jacko said:

I didn't vote to leave if we got a deal.

I voted to leave.

Don't tell me what I fucking meant

That is exactly my thoughts and to be honest most of my customers/friends and family.

[kobblers]

Don't get me bloody well started on those bastards in parliament and their behaviour - I've been withholding a rant all day

Whether you voted Leave or Remain, you should be seriously concerned about the implications of this all-out assault on democracy.

" First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me"

If they succeed at this, what else may they succeed at in the future?

We all need to put our differences aside and stand up for democracy - no matter how bad a taste it leaves in your mouth having to stand with people with whom you fundamentally disagree on the Brexit issue.

Rick.

[Flash]

1 hour ago, grahamparker said:

That is exactly my thoughts and to be honest most of my customers/friends and family.

So does a majority of the voters in the referendum, but they still do not understand.

Mess about till they get their own way, i.e. no brexit.

[rapidlocks]

this legislation preventing a no deal doesnt prevent a no deal it just delays it , if by some miracle boris won a general election with a big enough majority then this can be overturned and he can go no deal with his majority , but to do this he will need to ensure his relacement mps vote as he wants . if no majority he must hope farrages brexit party do well as would be the only ones who will vote for no deal with him.

of course the eu could just show us the door and throw us out on october 31st and deny an extension , take the deal or do one , though unlikely.

i still think we will end up staying in eu which has been their desire and plan from the outset.

what this has proven is that the public vote is meaningless and pointless , there is no point in voting as it means nothing , only what they want has meaning