k4mrc Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 It's another string to our collective bow's as far as I am concerned, customer's have been 'ripped off' by dealer's prices - so with us being able to do this I feel very happy about offering it as a service in my shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrkeys Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 remote cloning If someone brought out a stand alone machine with great coverage that would be a sexual piece of kit Anyone got the KD200 ? Was thinking it would be a good place to start Was wondering how it performs? good points, bad points etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidlocks Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 kd200 and kd900 are excellent kits , but they are not remote cloners , they create a large number of manufacture remotes for wide range of models , but they create a virgin remote that still needs coding by diagnostics or manual methods where these exist. its basically a stock saver , you can create over 300 different remotes from a stock remote ultegra 884 clones a number of id46 remotes including fiat 500 , ford ka which is useful , i believe zedfull does a range of clone remotes too. mrkeys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrkeys Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 kd200 and kd900 are excellent kits , but they are not remote cloners , they create a large number of manufacture remotes for wide range of models , but they create a virgin remote that still needs coding by diagnostics or manual methods where these exist. its basically a stock saver , you can create over 300 different remotes from a stock remote ultegra 884 clones a number of id46 remotes including fiat 500 , ford ka which is useful , i believe zedfull does a range of clone remotes too. Thank you sir, you are the fountain of all knowledge saved me a bit of hassle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EST Posted December 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Silca Cloud Cloning ID48 http://www.steenhauer.nl/files/Silca_Cloud_Cloning_ID48_Transponders.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbump69 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 so cloning is here and that is great. hooray. but wait. what when the customer goes to vw for work and they have to program keys again? programing clone keys makes dash corrupt and customer gives you bill for €2000,00. It already happens many many times with keys that are not from vw. what plans then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidlocks Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 that is a valid point and i suspect an unknown at present , as the key will have the same id as an original chip on their system for the car it may not corrupt and may just fail to code as it would with any faulty chip , obd keys with different chip id thats not on their system is the main culprit for this , so may not have this issue as id exists on system , though its an unkown at present , certainly a valid question to get an answer too , as with any potentially costly pitfall its good to know for sure . my understanding of this issue is that its an issue because of the chip id and challenge responses not matching an id on the dealers vas system , thus doesnt exist as far as dealer system is concerned , with a clone key the id matches an original key exactly thats already on the dealers vas system as long as cloned from a true dealer key , thus the challenge responses will match the original key as will the chip id , thus the system shouldnt find a problem to shut down the dash , though if cloned from an aftermarket key then this issue would be caused as not on their system , and its unlikely you will tell difference on the key you clone from , so potential for this issue will always exist dependent on the key cloned from. i suspect this issue may not happen if the key you cloned from is an original dealer key though would very much exist if cloned from an aftermarket key that does not appear on their system, so there will always be a possibility of a comeback dependent on the key you clone from . but this just affects VAG cloning on models with precoded cs so later models and not models prior to this and doesnt affect any other manufactures outside of late vag models so there does exist a situation that could bite our backsides , as will come down to whether you have cloned from a dealer key or an aftermarket key , in most cases it will be impossible to know for sure , so the next step is how does one protect against this , if the fault can be proven to be from the key you cloned from then maybe a get out of jail , maybe a well worded disclaimer , this i guess is the next solution needed. but thats just my thoughts , would be good for official clarification .. Simes and lockdecoders 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simes Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 that is a valid point and i suspect an unknown at present , as the key will have the same id as an original chip on their system for the car it may not corrupt and may just fail to code as it would with any faulty chip , obd keys with different chip id thats not on their system is the main culprit for this , so may not have this issue as id exists on system , though its an unkown at present , certainly a valid question to get an answer too , as with any potentially costly pitfall its good to know for sure . my understanding of this issue is that its an issue because of the chip id and challenge responses not matching an id on the dealers vas system , thus doesnt exist as far as dealer system is concerned , with a clone key the id matches an original key exactly thats already on the dealers vas system as long as cloned from a true dealer key , thus the challenge responses will match the original key as will the chip id , thus the system shouldnt find a problem to shut down the dash , though if cloned from an aftermarket key then this issue would be caused as not on their system , and its unlikely you will tell difference on the key you clone from , so potential for this issue will always exist dependent on the key cloned from. i suspect this issue may not happen if the key you cloned from is an original dealer key though would very much exist if cloned from an aftermarket key that does not appear on their system, so there will always be a possibility of a comeback dependent on the key you clone from . but this just affects VAG cloning on models with precoded cs so later models and not models prior to this and doesnt affect any other manufactures outside of late vag models so there does exist a situation that could bite our backsides , as will come down to whether you have cloned from a dealer key or an aftermarket key , in most cases it will be impossible to know for sure , so the next step is how does one protect against this , if the fault can be proven to be from the key you cloned from then maybe a get out of jail , maybe a well worded disclaimer , this i guess is the next solution needed. but thats just my thoughts , would be good for official clarification .. Now let's sit back and see if the manufacturers/suppliers can come back with some assurances for us .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbump69 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I think maybe clone will corrupt and is not a proper copy. but we will see. who is the brave man to test this? big gamble with lots of money in truth this is delaer problem and for the dealer to fix. we who know vw keys know this. we can even tell dealers how to use their programer correctly to fix such problems. but many dealers are dishonest or bad at their work and will give the customer a big bill and blame the key. who will the customer believe? the cloner will then have a big bill to pay because they do not really know keys and do not have proper insurance to make car keys. how many €40,00 keys must be sold to make €2000,00? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamparker Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I Now let's sit back and see if the manufacturers/suppliers can come back with some assurances for us .... I have already been down that route with the EH2 heads failing on a couple of Scania trucks (08+ models would flatten the battery within days resulting in a stranded lorry and load). A call out in the early hours was required on the first 2 that we did. I did receive 2 invoices from Scania as we offered to settle all costs and then i would take the matter up with the suppliers. Silca UK and Aldridges both sorted this with a minimum of fuss and expense and as a result we still supply Scania UK with keys using the GTI chips, we did end up a little out of pocket but nothing to really worry about. Since that happened they have had over 100+ further keys from us without any issues at all. It did help that i have a great working relationship with both of these company's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidlocks Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 well its a brave person who tests this for sure , but its no more of a risk than the auto locksmith takes when programming a key by obd for these , im sure instances will crop up and therfore justifies the need for correct insurances and liability cover that covers what you do . its impossible for the cloner manufacturer to know if your cloning from a dealer key or an aftermarket key so is not something they can factor for . i agree that the issue is with the vag dealerships not knowing how to use their equipment correctly , and id guess nows the best time to challenge their honesty , as exposed as cheats already , so not the best track record where honesty is concerned . as graham has highlighted , if buying original kit from legitimate distributors and you have a decent relationship with them it can pay dividends if things go tits up , this along with addequate insurances covering what you do is a must , just imagine what happens when china release their cheap options and their customers have no support or comeback . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlito Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Mini and xtreme portability. cloning and sniffing on board without going back to the shop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVhA19ADOOs Lee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EST Posted December 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Not a good news from Silca! New transponder will be used for cloning the ID48 is the T48 and has the same shape as the GTI transponder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamparker Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Not a good news from Silca! New transponder will be used for cloning the ID48 is the T48 and has the same shape as the GTI transponder. I was told it was the same size as a t6 glass chip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EST Posted December 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I was told it was the same size as a t6 glass chip. http://www.steenhauer.nl/files/WC2015_ID48_update_04122015_website.pdf De nieuwe transponder die gebruikt gaat worden voor de ID48 Cloning is de T48 transponder en heeft dezelfde vorm als de GTI transponder The new transponder which is going to be used for the ID48 Cloning the T48 transponder and has the same shape as the GTI transponder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silcaltd Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 GP is correct. Small glass chip. Andy G7, grahamparker and rapidlocks 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 what are you charging to clone ID48 s Lee or anyone for that matter? just the retail price please as he opens another can of worms...... carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamparker Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 When the Silca chips and kit land i will be charging £39.95 inc vat. k4mrc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavin Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 inc.lazer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy G7 Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 We charge £60 for anything other than a T5 which is £30, shop based. £80 if called out at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamparker Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Local competition from 2 market stalls and a clown have forced my pricing down, otherwise i wouldn't sell any. Currently using about 40 GTI chips a month (which i get a good discount on) so i am more than happy with my prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamparker Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 inc.lazer? I have a triax so yes including laser, perfect key every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrkeys Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Years ago we had a machine called a smartclone in fact I might still have it, it was used for Keyline battery heads I think it only had very limited capabilities, if memory serves me correct we only used to be able to use it to clone 4c chips But our problem was that the battery heads kept coming back all run down and had stopped working, (Usually after 6 months-2 years) this is why we stopped using these types of keys in the past, my question is are modern day battery heads any more reliable than they were in the early days??? Obviously like most people on here I'm looking at upgrading our current cloners and just deciding which option is for us. We currently have an old JMA Trs-5000 with the TPH and TPX boxes but I think JMA appear to be a little behind Silca and Keyline given these recent developments any info on the recent batteries folks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simong Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 jma id48 cloning will be out in 2016 trs evo update is £499 mrkeys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k4mrc Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Our prices (all of us) will depend on localised competition - i will be around forty quid, which will allow for the fact that the boot won't open and will therefore cut more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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