LockandKey Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I've read quite a few forums / posts here where the sponsors don't add any value or comment or just try to help (even at the risk of being wrong...we are all human) The sponsors just don't get involved It's a free market - and sponsors should have no 'hold' or content approval from a free forum. So I ask Lee..... why the umbilical cord with a sponsor who never comments or tries to help. apart from an annual payment? Happy to replace them & give you more funds to develop this site without any strings attached - I only ask for the standard 'right to reply' as a normal user. Happy to offer more money, and the odd normal comment / assist / and no headaches about others posting better prices...it's just market forces & nothing we can control. I'm getting bored of forums worried about offending the sponsor - it should be totally free, and I'm happy to sponsor the cost of free speech & markets if you agree? kobblers and shadowster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Not all kobblers and shadowster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Friend Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 There is a difference from sponsorship and the right to reply and feeling like you own the right to rant and rave at people who disagree with you - which in my opinion you have already done. A lot of sponsors/advertisers put the money up to keep their name in front of readers, maybe to advise on new products and do not neccassarily want to comment on a post about parking meters. It' also not all about money, If Lee had a problem financing this forum I for one would be happy to make a small annual fee, running a forum is not about profit, it's about giving back. I for one would want suppliers/major players to sponsor, not individuals who have just joined and want a piece of the pie. wellsy9, kobblers and grahamparker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 YOU are very much mistaken. It’s often not what goes on, on site but the relationships off site that are valuable to us as members. I speak to ALL sponsors if a topic arises that I feel they may need to look at or give support to. These are big companies; some international concerns that deal with social media in many languages I am immensely privileged that they support the site the way they do & don’t feel any of them or myself have to justify their “onscreen†involvement. I know exactly who to speak to within each company should the need arise & each of those people always show me great respect when I do. The umbilical cord is none of your business. I'm getting bored of forums worried about offending the sponsor - it should be totally free, and I'm happy to sponsor the cost of free speech & markets if you agree? Contrary to common misconception it is very rare for us to edit anything on the site, we do have guide lines in place to avoid any legal action against us & have only actually removed a few topics or posts (literally a handful) in our 10 years. It seems in fact you are more likely to be given some "free speech" if you ARE a sponsor than not. If you are bored of forums without free speech then perhaps start your own forum, I do however wish you luck with the UK publication & liable laws! Lee grahamparker, lockdecoders and kobblers 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 P.S. I spent the best part of Monday & some of yesterday installing the tutorials page, I spent a considerable amount of time re-launching the site at the early part of this year to bring it bang up to date. Thanks! to develop this site What would you like to, or expect to see? Lee kobblers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Sydney Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically across the plain...................The site is fine for me. I love Keys and kobblers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayke Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Nowt wrong with the forum, Lee, Sponsors and all members do a great job and i love coming on here Lee, I love Keys and kobblers 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockandKey Posted April 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 The point of involvement / interaction Vs sponsorship and edited posts or countless 'PM me' is down to 'don't upset the applecart' please do it privately, which is fine - but means a controlled forum? It's in no way a personal or otherwise attack on Lee or this collective - I have already posted on a closed MLA forum that this site should be included and endorsed by the MLA as it's run in a professional manner with some great contributors. I see lots of moral support in this post for Lee - which is great, but my post was not criticising 'where we are now' or Lee's drive and passion. The 'offer' is the chance to see into the future - a little, and avoid investments that could turn sour quickly? Some responses here refer to 'global' players - I don't see Assa Abloy (any division, Yale retail, Paddock, Union, Mul T Lock, TrioVing, MV marine etc), Allegion (Cisa etc) Schlage, Evva, Kaba, Era, Tigris, Abus, Ifam here? But I guess you don't include them as big players? They won't comment - but they maybe ok using a 3rd party they trust in the digital environment? It's not broke don't fix it - fine with me, there will always be more seeking answers than those providing solutions, and very few providing insight - as that's worth a lot of money. There maybe lots of questions we can't answer directly as it would breach confidentiality - but we could give you the info quickly once it has been approved, or guide you away from a poor investment because of current day to day demand. IE Without using Google - what's happening to new build homes from Sept 2015 that could effect key cutting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Some responses here refer to 'global' players - I don't see Assa Abloy (any division, Yale retail, Paddock, Union, Mul T Lock, TrioVing, MV marine etc), Allegion (Cisa etc) Schlage, Evva, Kaba, Era, Tigris, Abus, Ifam here? But I guess you don't include them as big players? Don't forget this forum is about more than just keys... IE Without using Google - what's happening to new build homes from Sept 2015 that could effect key cutting?Eh? (Presumably you mean affect, but I still have no idea how it relates to forum sponsorship.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I'm really sorry but I honestly have no idea what you just said lockandkey that post was way to deep for my thinking. But I will say this (the only bit I did understand) I seek no approval from anyone. People either use the site or they don't. I might however seek to endorse one or two trade associations at some point. Mike at Vauxhall and k4mrc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x minit uk Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 The point of involvement / interaction Vs sponsorship and edited posts or countless 'PM me' is down to 'don't upset the applecart' please do it privately, which is fine - but means a controlled forum? It's in no way a personal or otherwise attack on Lee or this collective - I have already posted on a closed MLA forum that this site should be included and endorsed by the MLA as it's run in a professional manner with some great contributors. I see lots of moral support in this post for Lee - which is great, but my post was not criticising 'where we are now' or Lee's drive and passion. The 'offer' is the chance to see into the future - a little, and avoid investments that could turn sour quickly? Some responses here refer to 'global' players - I don't see Assa Abloy (any division, Yale retail, Paddock, Union, Mul T Lock, TrioVing, MV marine etc), Allegion (Cisa etc) Schlage, Evva, Kaba, Era, Tigris, Abus, Ifam here? But I guess you don't include them as big players? They won't comment - but they maybe ok using a 3rd party they trust in the digital environment? It's not broke don't fix it - fine with me, there will always be more seeking answers than those providing solutions, and very few providing insight - as that's worth a lot of money. There maybe lots of questions we can't answer directly as it would breach confidentiality - but we could give you the info quickly once it has been approved, or guide you away from a poor investment because of current day to day demand. IE Without using Google - what's happening to new build homes from Sept 2015 that could effect key cutting? You need to buy a fish tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Just don't mention it to hughcandoit or it won't be fish he'll buy you to pit in it! Just my final thought on this topic (I was thinking about it whilst running today) I've never lost site of what we are. When alls said and done we are just a website lucky to have the sponsorship we do to pay for it. It is easy to begin believing your own hype and thinking your something your not. ive tried to evolve the forum naturally ive spent days on things that didn't work and minutes on things that have. attempting to force things forward has never been my way, which is probably why I'm still a one man band but it works for me and has proved to make this site something I'm quite proud of. It does exactly what its designed to do and one of my original briefs was I personally didn't want to visit a site swamped in adverts. Lee kobblers, I love Keys, derek and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Friend Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I think you have missed something - Read the title SHOE REPAIR FORUM, that is it's main role not locks from anyone, a lot of lockeys are here because the shoe guys know their key cutting and can recognise a blank in someones pocket. ' You seem to think that new build regs will affect trade - maybe in 15 years by which time the BS cylinders with 'restricted' keys will be old hat and will have been changed by some tosser on a bike with a poundland special I have only ever seen one case of a key cutter being threatened by a maker for cutting 'restricted' keys. The restriction is normally on the SHAPE of the key not the cutting so if you use a blank duplicating machine - there is no case to answer. x minit uk, Gray and grahamparker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Mr Lock&key take a small step back and enjoy the forum for what it is. It won't be changed because we like it for what it is. X minit's reply cracked me up.................. Fish tanks can be very soothing and calming.... ( Mines in the garage on it's side must dig it out) And let's face it if Warren likes it here it can't be bad...........I've made friends here and no enemies as far as I know. You just need to chill a bit and get a fish tank. Don't fill it with piranhas though.... Lee and grahamparker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Mr Lock&key take a small step back and enjoy the forum for what it is. It won't be changed because we like it for what it is. X minit's reply cracked me up.................. Fish tanks can be very soothing and calming.... ( Mines in the garage on it's side must dig it out) And let's face it if Warren likes it here it can't be bad...........I've made friends here and no enemies as far as I know. You just need to chill a bit and get a fish tank. Don't fill it with piranhas though.... Fish tank! on it's side,! How does the water stay in? derek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Magic................It defies the laws of gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Magic................It defies the laws of gravity. Bet you have one of those special tanks that have the top on the side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Oh!....You know about the special tanks then. .....Are you you a member of the STS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Oh!....You know about the special tanks then. .....Are you you a member of the STS... No, K.K.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 No, K.K.S. K.K.S? - did they take your baby away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 K.K.S? - did they take your baby away? Does that count as sponsor participation? Lee, x minit uk and derek 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Friend Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 S.T.D. you can take that away. petercoulson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockandKey Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 YOU are very much mistaken. It’s often not what goes on, on site but the relationships off site that are valuable to us as members. I speak to ALL sponsors if a topic arises that I feel they may need to look at or give support to. These are big companies; some international concerns that deal with social media in many languages I am immensely privileged that they support the site the way they do & don’t feel any of them or myself have to justify their “onscreen†involvement. I know exactly who to speak to within each company should the need arise & each of those people always show me great respect when I do. The umbilical cord is none of your business. Contrary to common misconception it is very rare for us to edit anything on the site, we do have guide lines in place to avoid any legal action against us & have only actually removed a few topics or posts (literally a handful) in our 10 years. It seems in fact you are more likely to be given some "free speech" if you ARE a sponsor than not. If you are bored of forums without free speech then perhaps start your own forum, I do however wish you luck with the UK publication & liable laws! Lee Lee, the conversations I have with manufacturers are not written in any online forum - no matter how private or secure you think they are. They are face to face, it's the only way you can guarantee privacy.(IP Board forum with Masterdc hosting, the directory entries have been left open/untidy which is not ideal and you have above average DDOS protection which is good - this was a 60 second test) Not sure what the replies refer to about liable laws and threats of legal action 'against Lee' - but I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with anything I have written here (as I would have been informed) and probably it's just some sabre rattling without any real steel, just doing their best to keep things under control without any real traction. Bark and no bite. However if someone is threatening you with legal action please let me know - I may be able to advise or help for free. (I'm sure all your sponsors have offered this support?) The other posts about patent keys and it all being history - I can only suggest you digest the numbers, the manufacturers interest aftersale, and I'm sure you know what the future holds as you are the engine driver & not the monkey.... The other randoms posting off topic comments - it's not about the post count, multiple playground votes does not give any gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockandKey Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Just don't mention it to hughcandoit or it won't be fish he'll buy you to pit in it! Just my final thought on this topic (I was thinking about it whilst running today) I've never lost site of what we are. When alls said and done we are just a website lucky to have the sponsorship we do to pay for it. It is easy to begin believing your own hype and thinking your something your not. ive tried to evolve the forum naturally ive spent days on things that didn't work and minutes on things that have. attempting to force things forward has never been my way, which is probably why I'm still a one man band but it works for me and has proved to make this site something I'm quite proud of. It does exactly what its designed to do and one of my original briefs was I personally didn't want to visit a site swamped in adverts. Lee No, K.K.S. Well I've had a 1,000l discus tank with a 500l sump and 6 breeding tanks all fed with RO gravity overflow but I lost interest - however importing F1 fish from South America to Thailand/Japan etc causes rapid in breeding and causal genetic defects - making them a bitch to keep alive, let alone breed them. You want to seriously talk about fish tanks - you are in the wrong forum, I've bred Discus here in the UK.... ooops sorry wrong forum. I'll also request your IP address to the fraud team, as SKS lost approx £4k last month, in a machine theft and it seems you find their loss amusing? Every little helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'm a bit lost, where did we find the stealing of a machine amusing? If we didn't have fish tanks and the like this forum would be quite boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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