Guest chalky111 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Calm down calm downi see where you are coming from Chalky but buying copy machines from china aint the answer. Ive spent an absolute fortune on stuff from hickleys/advanced and have to say thats the way I choose to do it. chinese stuff has a ceiling on it for what can be done so when it comes to upgrading you have to buy it all over again I dont see the logic in that(even though you can) Anybody worth there salt in this world uses the best methods/machinery and it comes at a price! how much do you charge for copying keys on your copy machine? who supplies your keys? Do you have overheads rent/rates/insurance/ on the question of insurance do you have public liability at your place of work and away from it if you are mobile? that again costs a fortune but it has to be paid (dont get cheap insurance from china!) so .......... RLJ is a 57 year old COCK but he has ethics and morals of which stand him in good stead on this forum and unless you can see the error of your ways in some peoples eyes you "my friend" are the "cock"! carry on! Well, firstly, i thank you. I was beginning to think that no had a decent point to make. If Chinese copies are not the answer, then do tell me what is? No on, no one in this world can justify the price of 12k for a machine? and there is absolutely no way you can tell me that charging the locksmith each time he plugs his T300 into a car to program a key is fair? If you believe so, then please explain. No other company does this. Sells you a product and then charges you to use it. If it was a charge for an update or a code or something, then it can be justified, its only purpose is purely for making them money. Its wrong. I agree that the Chinese stuff has a limit, and then there is no back up, or updates. Then i have to upgrade, buy a new machine. There is no sense in this you say? Well, I paid £250 for my T300 and it came with all the leads, all the adapters, and the case. So, if I have to buy 5 more in the next 5 years, then I think that is a lot more sensible than spending 12 grand on 1 machine, that charges me every time i use it. Is that false economy? if you think it is, then you cant be a businessman. Tell me why you agree with the 'token' system? them making money off the work YOU do? my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Chalky, do your homework and check the facts before posting. If you pay the £12k plus for the AD100PRO, you dont use tokens on it as the software is already paid for. Rapid locksmiths is correct in saying you will recieve no backup apart from the odd foolish answer on the forums. Your chinese copy machine is very probably at least 5 years out of date. Advanced diagnostics have to charge high prices for its software as to continue further development and because they are selling to a relatively small market. We dont need pirates in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Huish Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 First of all let me reveal who I am so I am not attacked for having an interest. My name is Robin and I am a director of Hickleys, the UK distributor of Advanced Diiagnostic products. I do not usually write on the forums as I believe it is for users not suppliers to push their products. However I do believe I should put some facts forward in reply to chalkys post. firstly you are confusing the 2 products, AD100pro &MVPPro. AD100pro is £12k if you buy every bit of software, however you buy what you want. The tokens are on the MVPPro and at only £1695 that seem a reasonable price for the hardware. The tokens are a different way to pay for your software. If you don't use it you don't pay, if you do you pay for the privilege. You mention that you would like to close them down, but if that happened the chinesse would have nothing to copy, then everyone loses out. What you seem to forget is that AD have a team of 6 software engineers working hard to deliver software which can take many months to deliver, our Asain friends just spend there time breaking ADs security, this then makes there product more expensive because they have to work just as hard to stop it being copied. You seem to be looking for someone to support your view, but you'll be hard pushed on a forum of professional business's. At the end of the day if another company invested in creating their own product and did it cheaper, That,s fair enough, but as there doesn,t seem to be one, that say's it's not that easy. buying chinnese copy's puts everyone business at threat, including yours. If your happy with your product, that,s great, but you're not likely to get a pat on the back from others for doing your small bit in destroying the market you operate in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chalky111 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 First of all let me reveal who I am so I am not attacked for having an interest. My name is Robin and I am a director of Hickleys, the UK distributor of Advanced Diiagnostic products. I do not usually write on the forums as I believe it is for users not suppliers to push their products. However I do believe I should put some facts forward in reply to chalkys post. firstly you are confusing the 2 products, AD100pro &MVPPro. AD100pro is £12k if you buy every bit of software, however you buy what you want. The tokens are on the MVPPro and at only £1695 that seem a reasonable price for the hardware. The tokens are a different way to pay for your software. If you don't use it you don't pay, if you do you pay for the privilege. You mention that you would like to close them down, but if that happened the chinesse would have nothing to copy, then everyone loses out. What you seem to forget is that AD have a team of 6 software engineers working hard to deliver software which can take many months to deliver, our Asain friends just spend there time breaking ADs security, this then makes there product more expensive because they have to work just as hard to stop it being copied. You seem to be looking for someone to support your view, but you'll be hard pushed on a forum of professional business's. At the end of the day if another company invested in creating their own product and did it cheaper, That,s fair enough, but as there doesn,t seem to be one, that say's it's not that easy. buying chinnese copy's puts everyone business at threat, including yours. If your happy with your product, that,s great, but you're not likely to get a pat on the back from others for doing your small bit in destroying the market you operate in. best post i've read. I contacted a guy at Advance, who told me that the more tokens you buy, the less you pay. nothing was mentioned about everything being included in the 12k price, so I was commenting with the information in my head that i was told. So I concede that point. My T300 has never failed me yet. And if Advance go out of business, then I am sure it will be the Chinese that develop the 'next thing' to do the job, and I dare say they will do it at a fraction of the cost. I mentioned before about the machines I use for BMW and Mercedes keys coming from China, and they do the job, and did not cost the earth. The Chinese are so far ahead in terms of technology in general. You are probably right, that no one on here will wave any flags for me, and that is by the by, but I have seen posts on here from people who have copied machines. I know 5 auto locksmiths and they all use Chinese machines. Setting up a business from scratch and realising there is a choice between 120 hundred pounds for a machine and 2.5 hundred, you tell me which one the new guy will take? its a no brainer. I have a friend who is an auto electrician and he has written software himself to make the rolling code chips for the rover 75 and he can also program a T5 chip to a sprinter van when all the keys are lost. I can bet you this (although small in comparison) feat did not cost thousands. All the guys with shops can maybe afford the huge prices, but when a guy is mobile and has to build a business, advertising takes the big money as there is no alternative on offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Huish Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 If you research the market I am sure you will find you're BMW & Merc product were developed in Eastern Europe and have suffered the same fate of being copied. I'm afraid I cannot think of 1 item of diagnostic product apart from the Launch diagnostic tester that has being truly developed in china. There will always some that will buy cheaper products, ebay are full of them, but at the end of the day quality always comes to the top. We know people buy the chinnese products, however, thankfully there are more and more that see the benefit of the latest software, latest vehicle, tech support and security of knowing there is someone to talk to if something goes wrong. I am sure in years to come china will be at the leading edge of technology and we will be holding their products up as the products to have, but at the moment they are a low technology country,offering poor quality copies of European and American products, this is how they are learning our markets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto Key Wizard Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 I will reply to this topic further when time allows. It seems the reply I was going to compose has already been posted, Thanks Robin, Derrick & Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 And there's the bit in some of the manual, that says stuff like "if any incodes dont work, please email them to us so we can develop further"... well maybe anyone who does email them a code should charge them £35 for helping with their research One of the best things about genuine Advanced Diagnostics equipment is the support. By owning their genuine kit you belong to an exclusive forum of AD owners. Yes its bloody annoying when the thing don't do what it should do, especially if your paying out for tokens BUT here’s the thing, as part of the "owners club" both the team at AD & experienced owners alike are there for you, solving your problems attempting to stop you losing your reputation on one difficult key! Its like playing a guitar, the've all been there! Business reputations take years to build and can quickly be lost if the tide turns. The low cost investment of the MVPpro (advertised as a low volume start up option) is the route I've taken & its been a slow hall so far, but believe you me, Terry Field (tel200) at 11 o'clock at night or Craig (thekeyvan) trying to solve your worries & wows are invaluable when you haven't got a clue & are self teaching your self a job that many would throw scorn on your efforts at trying with no training! If I openly admitted to AD, or the acquaintances I've developed through their back up, that I owned counterfeit programmers or openly to the world at the same time condemning the genuine articles, or there pricing structures would I have stood a cat in hells chance? Absolutely not, I'm more than happy with the price I paid for the equipment I use. good luck my friend you won't be getting any support from me. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Muppet Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 in my opinion, investing money into companies who rely on ripping people off is bad business. AD and similar companies may charge a lot for their machines but they are charging for years of research and development and back-up to support it. many of us went into cutting keys to plug the gap left by the decline in shoe repairs which i feel was caused by companies deciding to buy inferior shoes made in china which are sold at a throw away price. hundreds of people in northamptonshire lost their jobs as the shoe factories closed. if everyone started buying copied goods the development of new technology will grind to a halt and companies will go out of business. this in turn may put an end to your own business when you cant keep up with the development of new car keys as the rest of your business gets done over by cheap chinese imports. sorry lads, i'm crap when it comes to working out where to start a new sentence or paragraph. oh and, i might not make sense after a bottle of wine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto Key Wizard Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 you won't be getting any support from me. ....or me. & I also recommend that you don't have access to the Trade Section either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chalky111 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 If you research the market I am sure you will find you're BMW & Merc product were developed in Eastern Europe and have suffered the same fate of being copied. I'm afraid I cannot think of 1 item of diagnostic product apart from the Launch diagnostic tester that has being truly developed in china. There will always some that will buy cheaper products, ebay are full of them, but at the end of the day quality always comes to the top. We know people buy the chinnese products, however, thankfully there are more and more that see the benefit of the latest software, latest vehicle, tech support and security of knowing there is someone to talk to if something goes wrong. I am sure in years to come china will be at the leading edge of technology and we will be holding their products up as the products to have, but at the moment they are a low technology country,offering poor quality copies of European and American products, this is how they are learning our markets. well..seems its good to talk to someone who knows his stuff. After a lot of this site to that, it seems they are both originally from somewhere near turkey. But you see what i am saying, Advance is not the be all and end all. If they were to fold for whatever reason, the machines would be produced and the software written elsewhere... Look at cryptowork, doing the ford incode software, its excellent, and the price is excellent too. And to stop the Chinese copying it, they update it every month, and do you know how much the updates cost? nothing! If the software costs so much to develop then why do they charge so much for the leads and the unit itself? The leads cant cost a couple of quid each (probably from china) As far as "knowing there is someone to talk to if something goes wrong" If the machine and software are good, then that shouldn't be a selling point really. I still think they will push people towards the chinese copies, purely because of the rediculas price difference. "getting the updates" isn't worth that much money to anyone starting out in business to a budget. Different points of view, and you distribute the real one, so i know you are tied as to what you can say, but it is a massive difference, and it could be developed in another country. price puts people off that i know. its business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extremesecurity Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 I use an MVP PRO and like a few guys have already said tokens are a pain if the job fails for some reason, but as a rule its great, if you buy 250 tokens they are £7.50 each and even cheaper if you buy them on the Hickleys Trade Day. I have had great support from Stuart at Hickleys as well as Terry Tel200 and Craig The Keyvan and not forgetting Dan 3D, and would not use a cloned machine. I am in to diagnostics and one of the many machines i use is an Autoboss which also does limited key programming so i use that for Vauxhall, VAG and the MVP for the rest and just pass the £7.50 on. The thing i like about the MVP is i know i have full software so when the phone rings i know if i cant do the job neither can the man up the road. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 the third busiest viewed topic in the key section EVER, Chalky you sure you're not the marketing manager for AD's this is some of the best free marketing they are likely to have! Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Robin you are to be saluted for coming on and defending your product. i saw you online earlier while i was on and wondered if you would make comment im glad you did =D> chalky im sure you will see the error you are making in alienating yourself from the autolockies and hope one day you will concede that for the greater good of our industry you like many others were/are wrong to buy chinese copies carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extremesecurity Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 I think this topic will be hotter than a postmans feet on giro day in liverpool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chalky111 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Robin you are to be saluted for coming on and defending your product.i saw you online earlier while i was on and wondered if you would make comment im glad you did =D> chalky im sure you will see the error you are making in alienating yourself from the autolockies and hope one day you will concede that for the greater good of our industry you like many others were/are wrong to buy chinese copies carry on! "alienating yourself from the autolockies"??? firstly,it seems a lot of people on here are not "autolockies" but guys in the shoes business that also clone car keys. I know a few mobile auto locksmiths in the north west, and not one of them is using a genuine AD machine. In fact, i do a lot of warrent work through a locksmith company in the north west as a sub contract thing. they have a shop, and they have 3 chinese machines. So to be honest, i think there is a lot more copies about than you think, and far from alienating myself from the 'autolockies' i am one of them. its you lot on here, that see fit to line the pockets of a rip off market leader. All the guys i know would use AD and get the back up, and contribute to the development if it wasnt such a rip off (and they do say rip off) They use cryptowork software, its very reasonably priced... case in point. Lee, i am not marketing director for AD, and dont think I'd be in the shortlist for the job lol "good luck my friend you won't be getting any support from me." ... I dont get any support from you, or anyone else, just fellow 'autolockies' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Muppet Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 it seems you have put your point accross and the site is of no more use to you from now on. no-one here can offer you any more advise than has already been given good luck chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chalky111 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 I never came here for advice. i came here for justification for the price of the machines. And now it says chalky111 bafoon across the top of the page, lol gave me a smile, seems i ruffled a few feathers enough for someone to make an effort to try an piss me off lol guys, you keep paying fortunes for your stuff. Personally, I'd rather spend thousands on my house. Also, its now obvious to see what a bunch of childish guys there are on here, I mean, a response of "giant cock" and a banner of chalky11 bafoon, are stuff you would imagine seeing on bebo with my 14 year old son lol To be honest, i cant believe the director of Hickleys actually mingles with people of such childish demina.. but then again, business is business, and i salute him for being the only one who made any sense, and actually motivated me enough to find out where the BMW/Merc stuff came from. Just shows, AD wont have the monopoly forever, there are other companies that can develop stuff too. Good luck with your overpriced machines boys The bafoon thats a few thousand more well off than you lot with his copies that work as good as yours, remember that next time you push a button... Business is business, profit is only high if costs are down, but you already know that lol bye x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto Key Wizard Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 They use Cryptowork software, its very reasonably priced... case in point. Well the AD products don't need this, & is now 100% doing Ford/Mazda coded. I wish you luck when you do ya first Ford Galaxy or Transit Epic Well that's if you ain't chicken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingkey Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 chalky 111 who ever you are , fair play to you , a lot of people have stood up and taken notice . there are things to be taken into account though , as much as you may dislike AD products, they are the driving force within the uk and world market for that matter, so nearly every chinese company has copied it to the best of their ability, try to look through the numerous chinese sites for a clone of any other multi key programmer , you will find only 1 , sbb by origanally silca , even silcas original was miles behind AD software so to me the best original software for multi manufacture key programming is the AD software , whether via ad pro or mvp all the guys that have paid the going rate for the proper software (including myself ) made a choice to buy what we thought was the best equipment for our trade some guys in china copy it , albeit a few yrs out of date and along come the likes of you and your friends to buy it and compete on the same market , if we had not supported AD , there would be no clone for you to buy and you would not be competing for the jobs alongside me , i have no reason to side with AD , infact the opposite is true , simon from AD, banned me from AD forum for stating things about AD that he did not like , suposedly an anti AD (quote greg chambers ) so i am no sycophant , however for you to compete with me and my work i would like a level playing field and that wont happen cos you buy rip off cheap software that i have already paid for on your behalf not the best post , spelling or reading wise im sure , from the heart tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chalky111 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 chalky 111 who ever you are , fair play to you , a lot of people have stood up and taken notice . there are things to be taken into account though , as much as you may dislike AD products, they are the driving force within the uk and world market for that matter, so nearly every chinese company has copied it to the best of their ability, try to look through the numerous chinese sites for a clone of any other multi key programmer , you will find only 1 , sbb by origanally silca , even silcas original was miles behind AD software so to me the best original software for multi manufacture key programming is the AD software , whether via ad pro or mvp all the guys that have paid the going rate for the proper software (including myself ) made a choice to buy what we thought was the best equipment for our trade some guys in china copy it , albeit a few yrs out of date and along come the likes of you and your friends to buy it and compete on the same market , if we had not supported AD , there would be no clone for you to buy and you would not be competing for the jobs alongside me , i have no reason to side with AD , infact the opposite is true , simon from AD, banned me from AD forum for stating things about AD that he did not like , suposedly an anti AD (quote greg chambers ) so i am no sycophant , however for you to compete with me and my work i would like a level playing field and that wont happen cos you buy rip off cheap software that i have already paid for on your behalf not the best post , spelling or reading wise im sure , from the heart tho great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chalky111 Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 They use Cryptowork software, its very reasonably priced... case in point. Well the AD products don't need this, & is now 100% doing Ford/Mazda coded. I wish you luck when you do ya first Ford Galaxy or Transit Epic Well that's if you ain't chicken "Well that's if you ain't chicken" ??? yawn.. grow up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Huish Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 Chalky you seem to be missing the point of what a Chinese copy is! It is not an alternative lower priced product that has been developed by a different company with years of research, design and development. With your machine you get Software that is 5 years out of date and says "advanced diagnostics" on the screen, you get a photocopy of the AD manual, you get a low cost version of all the hardware. This is not an alternative product, this is a fraudulent copy of someones design, intellectual property and patented product. I am amazed that you are trying to hold it up as a credible product, it is a copy, nothing more, nothing less. What you need to remember is that our little friend in china is not developing software for you, in fact he probably has no idea what you use an AD100Pro for, they don,t have our european vehicles to work on or any idea of what needs to happen, they see an opportunity to crack a software security and blatantly copy it, their not trying to hide the fact that it is a copy, they rely on the weak nature of the human race to buy stolen and copied products you quote crypto work, as some kind of equivalent, but this software that the guys in turkey developed themselves, it is not a copy. If a Chinese copy of crypto work was available for a tenner would you be waving the flag for that as well? Cryptowork was a very good piece of software, they sold loads ( we sold it too) but in only 6 months the product is dead, the AD products have bypassed the Ford coded so no codes are required. If the guys from crypto work made enough money in that short time to cover their costs and put some money in their pocket, good on them. I am all for competition, new products, lower cost products, new ideas, bring it on that's what makes my business run, but supporting copy products is not a soap box to stand on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x minit uk Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 Blimey, think I will stick to my trs5000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 and a banner of chalky11 bafoon Blimey, think I will stick to my trs5000. Same here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamparker Posted August 21, 2010 Report Share Posted August 21, 2010 As a buyer and owner of an original AD100 machine let me explain my reason for purchasing this and not even thinking about chinease copies. When you first dip your toe into the programming waters it can be a massive learning curve and you need all the help and support along the way which is why i bought my machine from hickleys. I cannot count the number of times i neede help and Mr Duncan Bellinger who works for hickleys who im sure most of you know has always been there to help.I even rang one friday evening in late december after 9pm,i had travelled over 30 miles through snow and ice to program a rover 25 which would not work. After contacting duncan the job was finished within 5 minutes and i left behind a very happy customer. The point is the chinese can copy all they want but when they start to build from scratch and invest time money and effort into a machine then someone else will copy it,Does not make it right in my book. Chalky i think you are short sighted and idiotic and indicitve of the retards invading the locksmithing fraternity in general,2 day course new dewalt = Master Locksmith,you will soon be found out. Wait untill something goes wrong and you damage a vehicles ecu and you need help,who are you going to turn to ??? As i posted before "Gigantic Cock" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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