hibsjo(SCO) Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I know this rears its ugly head now and again but i had a customer in at the weekend who wasnt pleased that i refused to do a build up on there say so! it onlt needs 1.5 inches on the heel! "i" take full responsibility for you doing the repair they said! NO YOU DONT I SAID! unless you have a prescription I wont do it off they went peeded off? what do you guys do? carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 same as you, no specialist or GP letter, no build up. Only a matter if time before legal action is taken against a cobbler for breaking a nice artificial hip joint or simular through an incorrect raise. keeping it by the book, should strenghten any case against us. Totally agree with you. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I know I'm potentially setting myself up for some here, but I've always just done what the customer has asked for, so far without any come back. Perhaps a policy that I might need to revisit... Okay, thinking as I go here, but how about a contract / disclaimer form which contains the following info: 1. customer's details 2. repairer's details 3. full info on build requested 4. image of shoe before & after 5. customer's signature that the work was completed accurately & to their satisfaction. Would a document of this nature stand up as a proper contract if there was a subsequent problem, or would it just be a waste of time, not worth the paper it's printed on? (Not questions I know the answer to...) Okay, I'm heading under the table, here we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfman Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 same as lee unless theyhave a scipt with the required information then it must be a no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I'm not sure you could be held responsible, if you only do what the customer asks.. But I agree with your ethics Jo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Same as Steve I've always done what the customer asks, never had any comebacks. Maybe time for a rethink, I'll join Steve under the table for now though, move up a bit lofty. .................Have you farted under here? :-& :-& Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 just do what they ask,by all means ask if it's the hospital that has advised them to have it built up that much,if they say no that's just what they think then mention that they are probably better to get the right height from the hospital 1st,if they insist do it,i had a similar thing with an African woman who insisted on having her heels lowered too much,i pointed out it shouldn't be lowered by so much,she insisted so i went ahead,i have now had a few of her friends asking for the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 just do what they ask,by all means ask if it's the hospital that has advised them to have it built up that much,if they say no that's just what they think then mention that they are probably better to get the right height from the hospital 1st,if they insist do it,i had a similar thing with an African woman who insisted on having her heels lowered too much,i pointed out it shouldn't be lowered by so much,she insisted so i went ahead,i have now had a few of her friends asking for the same thing ALL lowering is done at customers own risk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Lee doesn't do lowering. . . . . he's low enough already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 i am the same planet,however if the customer asks you for a service and you can do it then i say do it,the chances are she won't be back in Hibsjo's shop and will by now have told her friends how unhelpful he was(in her eyes atleast) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted November 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Why say I've been unhelpful? I told the customer exactly what to do if they want the job done right! I'm not ruining my reputation! I'm enhancing it! I cannot do them without a professionals survey of what needs doing! I'm not in a position to tell people how high is needed on an orthotics repair neither is any orthopaedic shoerepairer. Only when you have the full specifics can you even start a job like this. I'm not that desperate either to do a job which leaves ME vulnerable to come back! In this day and age it is only a matter of time before some muppet is done for exactly this. It won't be me Carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Whoa Jo! Nobody is knocking you for your ethical stance here fella. Much the opposite. We can learn from this. To be honest most of my customers have their own measurements but some want to experiment and those that do i tell them it will be at their own risk. The same as i do with heel lowering or any alterations that are not as the manufacturers specs. But as Steve said maybe some disclaimer signed by the customer would be a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbas Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 As Lee and Elfman. No prescription no raise. Simple as that. The dept that does the shoes should give out details no problem. Carry on Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 The EC Medical Devices Directives has this year been implemented into UK law. It covers everything from heart valves to mundane things such as first aid bandages & glasses. It states that the manufacturers of an artificial device extension that replaces a missing body part can be held liable for the deterioration of anyones condition through an incorrect or poorly manufactured device. Its a grey area, whether we are indeed "manufacturing" a device. BUT being 100% stringent on requiring a letter has actually paid off for me. I've built a good relationship with the local hospital over the years & know the right people to phone to get letters & technicalities sorted out. Its often easier & quicker for customers to come to me than use the hospital services, I have a phone book where I write down the measurements & price charged & then I fill away the letter, just in case! the little black book acts as a bible to loyalty! Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 I usually do mods based on the script by a orthopod or similar. If they don't have one, I find out if it has been done for them before, what the problem is, and how long has it been since they have had a check-up. I have a podiatrist that I work closely with (they send me a lot of work and I send them a lot of work too) that does a discounted rate for my referred customers which when you mention that, the customers are usually happier to go see them as they don't have to pay as much (20% off his fee and 20% off the work that I do which makes it more affordable for them to do the right thing). If they insist from there, I make them sign a waiver of liability stating that they have authorised the modifications against our advice and that they are aware of the risks and damages that can come from the work being performed without medical advice. I also display my certificate for the training that I recieved for orthopedic modifications in a prominent position for customers to see and my provider number as well. That generally is good enough for them to know that I know what I am talking about and then they go see my friend the podiatrist, then come back with a prescription (which also enables them to claim the modification on their health insurance - no script, no refund) and the job gets done responsibly and professionally. In short, I will do the job if they pay me full price, but I can usually advise/scare/coerce them into doing the right thing...and they get no refund from their health insurance fund (which means that all up they get - discount on podiatrist services, - partial/full refund of the podiatrist from health insurance, - discount on my services, - partial/full refund on my services from health insurance -> generally means that they end up out of pocket about half of what it would cost them if they pay my full price with no script...) and everyone is happy.... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbas Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 The EC Medical Devices Directives has this year been implemented into UK law. It covers everything from heart valves to mundane things such as first aid bandages & glasses. It states that the manufacturers of an artificial device extension that replaces a missing body part can be held liable for the deterioration of anyones condition through an incorrect or poorly manufactured device. Its a grey area, whether we are indeed "manufacturing" a device. BUT being 100% stringent on requiring a letter has actually paid off for me. I've built a good relationship with the local hospital over the years & know the right people to phone to get letters & technicalities sorted out. Its often easier & quicker for customers to come to me than use the hospital services, I have a phone book where I write down the measurements & price charged & then I fill away the letter, just in case! the little black book acts as a bible to loyalty! Lee What there talking about is hip ops and prosthetic devices. Orthotics is totally different as you already have the limb and we are either accomaditing or correcting. But still no prescript no raise. Sorry but you've got to be blunt sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Here we go then, a nice bit of paperwork to cover your back. Intentionally left unbranded so it can be used by anybody. If required, I'll also pop it in the downloads section. If you think there are any glaring errors, or obvious amendments needed, let me know & I'll tweak it. Ortho Consent Form.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 It just might be worth sticking it under the nose of a solicitor Steven as it may not be worth the paper it's written on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 it may not be worth the paper it's written on indeed it may not, but even if it's not, it shows our customers that we have a professional, considered approach to our work. It might also make some of those who 'self prescribe' stop & think about what they are doing and consider the potential consequences that probably haven't even occurred to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobblers Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Nice one Steve =D> Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyrepro Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Here we go then, a nice bit of paperwork to cover your back.Intentionally left unbranded so it can be used by anybody. If required, I'll also pop it in the downloads section. If you think there are any glaring errors, or obvious amendments needed, let me know & I'll tweak it. [attachment=0]Ortho Consent Form.pdf[/attachment] Nice form, but probably not quite legal enough. Setting aside the medical ethics, you would need an actual "release and liability waiver" drafted for the customer to sign away his or her right to sue you. Whether or not it would be legal (i.e. stand up in court) from a medical standpoint is moot and you would need to get a medical malpractice solicitor to review/draft your wording. In terms of (say) a fully able-bodied customer wanting extremely high-heels put on a pair boots as a fashion accessory (against your professional advice), then a liability waiver might be useful. Also, on your form, you have characterised the work you do as a "repair". In court (if it came to it), the land sharks would get you all tied in knots as to the fine distinction between a "repair" and a "modification to an existing prescription" and a "modification of a new off-the-shelf shoe", etc., so you need to be clear about that. Further, your form needs to distinguish between adults acting for themselves, parents/guardians acting for and on behalf of minors and possibly even social workers acting for and on behalf of clients/the elderly or infirm who are not capable of acting for themselves. Even if you did manage to get a legally useful form-of-words for a liability waiver, you would (of course) still have legal a duty of care to your customer. I don't do shoe repairs, but I presume you guys all have public and product liability insurance which protects you against claims for broken ankles, etc. as a result of faulty workmanship on your part? HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 Sounds like we're back to every man for himself then. Decide on your policy & go with the flow as before. I'm not interested in getting into pages & pages of legal small print, I thought I'd come up with a reasonable middle ground, but it seems not. I think I should have stayed under the table... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 I retired to "under the table" some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 thought it was getting a bit crowded down here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 thought it was getting a bit crowded down here Aint been right since the super glue and dust epic.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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