Yale superior 4-3-4 not working

[ciawest]

Hi, 

Anyone be able to help me with this key. I've spend many hours on it now.

The original key is too short to fit in the voice correctly for the Miracle A9. So I cant decode the key on the machine but i read it as

2323-331-1321

I was thinking about 2323-221-1321 bit that doesn't go deep enough.

I've put the copies through the machine many times now and not sure what to do.

In the attached photos, the short key is the original. The longer ones are the copies. I have drilled the dimples abit deeper than I had originally and the machine read as not deep enough but starting to think that wasnt the problem.

Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated 

Cheers

[abababa]

8 minutes ago, ciawest said:

Hi, 

Anyone be able to help me with this key. I've spend many hours on it now.

The original key is too short to fit in the voice correctly for the Miracle A9. So I cant decode the key on the machine but i read it as

2323-331-1321

 

Your decoding looks spot on to me.  When the customer said it didn't work, did they clarify if it went fully into the lock?  I've had a few of these that haven't fully gone in due to the way the snake cut is done on an automatic machine.   Tracing the snake manually solved the issue.

[grahamparker]

45 minutes ago, abababa said:

Your decoding looks spot on to me.  When the customer said it didn't work, did they clarify if it went fully into the lock?  I've had a few of these that haven't fully gone in due to the way the snake cut is done on an automatic machine.   Tracing the snake manually solved the issue.

Agreed, i have set different depths on my Triax than the standard factory settings using the Silca Key Program.

I bought 3/4 different cylinders to practice with which really helps.

[ciawest]

17 hours ago, abababa said:

Your decoding looks spot on to me.  When the customer said it didn't work, did they clarify if it went fully into the lock?  I've had a few of these that haven't fully gone in due to the way the snake cut is done on an automatic machine.   Tracing the snake manually solved the issue.

I've been to their house and checked and it goes in as far as the original key, so i'mm guessing that means the snake cuts are correct.

I think i might have to cut my loses and tell the customer i cant do it.

I cant remember the last time i had to do that :/

thanks for the advice and tips. I'll be getting a couple cylinders in the future to practice and/or manual machine.

[simon1]

I always use the same length of dimple keys
I cut out manually because I do not have a computerized machine
I have to say, I do not remember when some keys did not work
I think that the length of the key was the reason why it does not work
sometimes simple machines are better
Maybe in the future I invest but for now I'm happy with what I have and prefer to spend money on something else

[Count Muppet]

I didn’t think those locks need to be that accurate.

I’ve been cutting the keys on a standard keyline punto on mgn1 blanks for a couple of years without angled cuts and had no issues.

I brush them well to wear off the edges so that they don’t get stuck.

ive been doing this for magnum, superior and platinum 

[ciawest]

47 minutes ago, simon1 said:

I always use the same length of dimple keys
I cut out manually because I do not have a computerized machine
I have to say, I do not remember when some keys did not work
I think that the length of the key was the reason why it does not work
sometimes simple machines are better
Maybe in the future I invest but for now I'm happy with what I have and prefer to spend money on something else

I have been to the customers hows and it appears to go in the lock the correct distance (goes as far in as the original key)

Always thought if i jumped to the automatic machine i wouldnt need a manual machine but looks like simple machines are better sometimes like you said

[ciawest]

47 minutes ago, Count Muppet said:

I didn’t think those locks need to be that accurate.

I’ve been cutting the keys on a standard keyline punto on mgn1 blanks for a couple of years without angled cuts and had no issues.

I brush them well to wear off the edges so that they don’t get stuck.

ive been doing this for magnum, superior and platinum 

that make feel so much lol.

you dont even need to do the cuts at an angle. i'm surprised by that

[ciawest]

18 hours ago, grahamparker said:

Agreed, i have set different depths on my Triax than the standard factory settings using the Silca Key Program.

I bought 3/4 different cylinders to practice with which really helps.

is that different depths for the dimple, snake or both?

I have tried programming some new keys on the A9. so i might give that a go. thanks

[simon1]

2 hours ago, ciawest said:

I have been to the customers hows and it appears to go in the lock the correct distance (goes as far in as the original key)

Always thought if i jumped to the automatic machine i wouldnt need a manual machine but looks like simple machines are better sometimes like you said

if you did this longer key from the tip
the holes are in a completely different place
you just need to compare these two keys and see the cut does not match the distance with pins inside the lock

They just pass and do not hit the holes

[ciawest]

On 5/11/2019 at 3:09 PM, simon1 said:

if you did this longer key from the tip
the holes are in a completely different place
you just need to compare these two keys and see the cut does not match the distance with pins inside the lock

They just pass and do not hit the holes

The copy key goes in the same distance as the original key.

i.e. more of the copy key is sticking out. so i dont think it is passing them. I have tried the keys in the lock myself and felt the pinned going in the dimples

But i guess as the original key is too short too fit in my A9 Miracle Vice, and cant read the key, that could be a factor.

Seems like a poor designed vice for the yale superior keys if it cant accept all of them 

Where do you get the shorter key version from? I cant seem to find it

Edited May 13, 2019 by ciawest

[lockdecoders]

call us at the office. And lets see if we can sort it out.

peter

[ciawest]

22 hours ago, lockdecoders said:

call us at the office. And lets see if we can sort it out.

peter

Thanks Peter,

I have just  re-calibrated the machine and cut a new key.

i went through the process for cutting a key again. 

I am wondering if i had the 0.6mm diameter tipped drill in, instead of the 1mm tipped drill. 

The customer will be in today or tomorrow, so i'll update my original post if the new key works, showing i just made dump mistake. If it doesn't work, I'll call you Peter

Fingers crossed

[simong]

just cut a Yale superior on my A9 worked first time  

[ciawest]

11 hours ago, simong said:

just cut a Yale superior on my A9 worked first time  

I've cut other yale superior keys before and after this key and had no problem. I think this is the first Yale superior that is too short to fit in the vice to be decoded.

Hopefully I just over thought it and simply used the wrong drill and it works now. I'll hopefully find out today and update when i do.

I've spent so much time on this one key it will be embarrassing to find out if i made such simple mistake

[lockdecoders]

No problem at least it works.

 

 

[ciawest]

27 minutes ago, lockdecoders said:

No problem at least it works.

 

 

customer has still to test the key. She said she will be in today but hopefully it does work.

 

 

[ciawest]

On 5/14/2019 at 12:16 PM, ciawest said:

Thanks Peter,

I have just  re-calibrated the machine and cut a new key.

i went through the process for cutting a key again. 

I am wondering if i had the 0.6mm diameter tipped drill in, instead of the 1mm tipped drill. 

The customer will be in today or tomorrow, so i'll update my original post if the new key works, showing i just made dump mistake. If it doesn't work, I'll call you Peter

Fingers crossed

still doesnt work. i've giving the customer her money back. and asked her if another key cutter is successful, to let me know.

I'll call you tomorrow Peter, see if there is anything I missed

[David C]

Did you try 2323-221-1321?   Your 3s on the B axis look deeper than the origional.   My A9 appears to cut less deep if anything...they've all worked though.

All the dimples on your key seem the same size or a little smaller than the origional (as I would expect on A9) except the 3s on the B axis.

[ciawest]

I have tried 221 instead of 331 and the cuts are definitely not deep enough. Here is the latest key I cut for it that didn't work. 

[Count Muppet]

Have you tried other blanks? Maybe you got a bad batch.

[ciawest]

The first 2 copies are from genuine yale blanks, if the dimple cuts look too deep I had been advised to do that after they didn't work the first attempts.

The 3 key I cut is from a ya-281d from sks and that doesn't work either.

I have spoken to Peter from lockdecoder for advice and options.

I'm going to ask my customer if I can file the shoulder of her original key so that it fits into my vice, so I can decode it with my A9 miracle.

Hopefully she is up for trying and hopefully this works. 

I'm either going to work this key out or it will kill me

 

[Count Muppet]

Offer her some free keys for helping you out. Can’t see her saying no

[ciawest]

20 hours ago, Count Muppet said:

Offer her some free keys for helping you out. Can’t see her saying no

with the work i've being doing to get this keys to work, i think doing them for free is going abit far lol

I would be curious to see how another key cutter gets on. 

still waiting for her to reply but i'll update the forum when something happens.