hibsjo(SCO) Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 before I start the guys who do this work are in a league of their own and I am just being critical cause i like an arguement after going to the CE show and spending some time with the judges of the shoe competition I wondered what were the requirements for entering this competition. My thoughts on entering before I spoke to the judges were as follows there would have to be a seamless graft. the stitching would have to be perfect the logo would have to be slap bang in the middle of the sole and the finish would have to be of a very high finish all of the above on a daily basis are achieved by most repairers with a bit of jiggery pokery. so onto the shoes in the competition all very nice repairs BUT I was surprised to see that perfect grafting was not achieved as there were some signs of "jiggery pokery" I was really surprised to see the sponsors logo not slap bang in the middle of the repair and more to the point symmetrical in appearance. stitching not perfect, some stitches were longer than others I spoke to sponsor and they agreed that they were surprised at the outcome of the judging. I have never entered this competition on the basis of my understanding of the judging and that the judges would be looking for an absolute wonderful flawless repair and my work would not come close to this. the best pair on show in my mind did not win incoming carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I entered Joe & can only comment from the competition I entered (don't forget there where two options this year!) These are the winning shoes, Which artistically where very nice & worthy winners. These shoes came second, the edge finishing was spot on. & these are mine, answering your criticisms of the competition. there would have to be a seamless graft. I felt I achieved this, I did not sand or touch the JR surface. I actually used another JR soles to replace the waist area before the graft, so that I achieved a seamless look & feel. the stitching would have to be perfect I actually groved these by hand & turned the machine by hand, perfect stitches perfect distances. the logo would have to be slap bang in the middle of the sole Not that easy to show in a photo, but when fitting competition soles I use a template to get both logos in exactly the same place on both shoes. and the finish would have to be of a very high finish I don't think there are many people giving this sort of shine or finish across the counter on a daily basis. *Note also the way I skived down the rubber from the front edge of the 1/4 rubber & replaced it with leather so there was no black line running through the front of the breast & no need to finish black as it was leather right through. attention to detail IMO* I spoke to sponsor and they agreed that they were surprised at the outcome of the judging. the best pair on show in my mind did not winincoming carry on! I have no doubts that the best shoes won. but find your statement interesting. Lee HarryHeffernan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 By the way my downfall was because I brought the graft to close to the heel blocks, this seamed to be the only critic offered off my repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x minit uk Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 in my humble opinion the 1/4 rubbers on the winning pair look rubbish, to much rubber and enough nails to build a shed. Lee's look far better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I agree with X Minits comment and I also think Lee's repair was much better than the 2nd place pair. Much neater job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Didn't really want to comment on the topic tbh but... Firstly I think I am more than qualified to judge a shoe repair after 35 years in the trade, most of you who know me and my work will know we do a pretty damn good job! Having looked at the photos (first time I have seen them) I am astounded, and here's why. The winning Pair: There is a huge bump in the graft (painted black) proving that the graft was only tidied up after the sole was fitted, hence all the black enamel. Imo there is too much paint and fancy patterns to warrant a 1st place. Second place: These are just an average repair with a pretty poor graft, BUT in the maine, may be a better repair than the winner, as it is what it is, no paint covering up (but failing to a trained eye) a very poor graft that has it appears to have been tidied up afterwards. Third place: These are without doubt in my mind the winner of the 3 pairs on show! WHY, because it is a traditional quality repair with no tricks of disguise, beautiful stitching, lovely graft, almost identical as a pair and with a lovely finish. I don't know who judges these competitions, but if they are ex repairers, then they where not very good at knowing a good job when they see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Regarding Lee's comment about getting 'marked down because the join was too close to the heel block' If true, then what a load of rubbish! Could someone explain the disadvantage if having a half sole too close to the heel because I can't see any! If anything, the join on the 2nd place pair looks a bit high..which can cause problems if its near the bend of the foot...thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 3rd place has a perfectly positioned graft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted October 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Dean the rule of thumb is waists are to start at 3 fingers deep on the instep(my rule: 2 on the outstep which equates to the same) I find it irrelevant in Lees case. I measured these and they were 4mm lower than rule of thumb (using my fingers) so its down to interpretation, we've not all got big fat fingers carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 And we've not all got the same size feet either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I've got size 5 feet and small fingers, the graft was perfectly placed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisorros Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Has anyone got a picture of the pair that came 3rd? Never messured the distance from the block to the waist. Just checked it on the pairs i have done for customers & 2 & a hlaf / 3 & a half fingers, i note i have slim fingers I've always just done it by eye. I entered last year just to see where i could improve my skills for my customer as the judges could see where i could improve my craft. (If i got a trophy & free adverisment from it as well i wouldn't say no) I took what was said/marked & consentrated on improving in those areas. Still have last years winners picture hanging out the back of the shop so i know i have to atleast beat that to enter next year. I'm not a fan of blacking out myself but two years on the bounce that finished has won. (Also a great repairs as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Has anyone got a picture of the pair that came 3rd? pictures 5-8 above are the third placed shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 All the shoes have clearly been repaired to a fine standard, otherwise they wouldn't have been the top 3. My main observation / comment regards the winning pair. I would expect that the finished repair should be exactly symmetrical in every respect, and (allowing for the different angle that the shoes are sitting at in the photograph) the space between the JR logo & the edge of the black inking looks to be considerably different from one shoe to the other (see red highlight below). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Steven this logo is not taken into consideration in the judging! its beyond belief that the logo from the sponsor is not taken into account on the winning shoes when its obvious that 2nd and 3rd have it "right" carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Well, I find that astonishing! Not because it's the sponsor's logo, but (looking at it from my perspective as a photographer) because it is the initial focal point of the repair. The eye is naturally drawn to the logo first, then you would look around from there. Getting the logo symmetrically positioned within the repair seems to me to be such a fundamental part of the job that it almost wouldn't need to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 I have to be honest, I don't think I'll enter again. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 all nice but who won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Kenneth Simpson. Dispite the logo the shoes where nice and one thing I will say about Kenneth is he's passionate about the industry and a more worthy winner you will not find. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted October 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 you are correct in saying the guy is passionate about the industry wonderful cv. Surprised no one from the committee have come back and given us their views on this or maybe im not surprised! carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinh Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Apologies, I have been away for a few days and am just catching up on things. I am not a judge, I organise the competition on behalf of the sponsors and I am not going to go in to specific comments on this years winners. When entrants receive their competition packs they also receive a copy of the marking sheet and a set of guidelines to provide the basic requirements of the entry. It does also specifically say that there will be no correspondence from the judges after the winners have been announced. This is always a tricky and emotive subject because many people will have differring ideas about what constitutes a winning repair. The judges follow the same guidelines as the entrants when marking to ensure conformity throughout the process. One point that I must re iterate is that the judges have no idea who has created the work they are judging until the final coded mark sheets are completed and in actual fact they prefer not to be told even then. Usually they only know the identity of the winners when they are announced at the Exhibition. If any contributor to this topic would like to be one of the judges at the next competition and is suitably qualified by knowledge and experience I would be happy to include them on the panel. It is a full days work, is carried out at a hotel near Derby and there is a small payment made for attending (and I buy lunch) so if there are any interested people please let me know. Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 If Robin's buying lunch I'm sorely tempted by this offer! It appears that there is a lot of sour grapes on here. If we all stopped entering because we didn't win, no more competitions. It appears some people can judge the entries from the photos better than the judges on the day! What a sorry lot of old cobblers we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 It appears some people can judge the entries from the photos better than the judges on the day! It's worth bearing in mind the initial comment on this topic: before I start the guys who do this work are in a league of their own and I am just being critical cause i like an arguement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 If we all stopped entering because we didn't win, no more competitions. As the only one to comment on the topic who actually entered the competition the sour grapes line was directed at me. I've entered competitions probably a dozen times over the years, I've only won once outright. there's no sour grapes on my part, competition work has filtered through to my daily work & has seen me make vast improvements in my own standards over the years. I am critical, maybe opinionated about this years duel competitions, but I am not sour in anyway. I agree with the point Joe raised. how can an off centre logo of the sponoring company possibly win? If I was running the competition I would be sitting down to re-assess if we had the marking system or judging correct in light of this topic alone. Kenneth is a top banana, a deserved winner with the judging criteria this year imo. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 My comments were not aimed at any individual, sorry if you thought I was having a go at you. I have been in this trade quite a time now, I have seen many competitions come and go, the guys that run them have all my sympathy, it is far to easy to criticise the judges, the entrants, the winners, the losers even the venue!. The more entrants there are the more it's worth winning, just enjoy having a go. Thanks for the watch Lee, by the way, brilliant service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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