Keys not cutting right!!

[Michael]

I've recently changed the blade and guide on my Orion/Keyosk Mizar mortice machine and ever since it seems to be set too far over, away from the shoulder.

I've tried moving the carriage over but soon moves back again.

I'm starting to get the odd key back now and it's p***ing me off!!!

 

Any ideas???

[Mick Friend]

why did you change the guide????

if they are not matched to that machine anything can happen- go back to the old setup and recalibrate cut a few keys and see what occurs.

 

silly question is the wheel the right way round? I have seen them put on about face and while they may cut they dont do the proper job

[Michael]

I changed the guide last year because it was REALLY worn! (over 20 years old!)

The new one was the right one for the machine but is now made 1.60mm thick instead of 1.50mm, but everything was fine until I changed the cutter.

It only goes in one way as the teeth are angled so I know thats right.

There are 2 little grub screws that hold the clamp for the original key, so I've loosened them and recalibrated the machine by moving this a fraction.

I did this saturday afternoon so haven't had to cut any keys yet.

The keys that seemed to be the worse were non-genuine Union 2277 steel blanks (HD B436S).

If i put two Chubb 373 blanks in everything seems to line up perfectly, but when it comes to cutting, especially 3 lever Union, it always seems to miss the blank on the shoulder side, some worse than others.

Maybe it's the blanks!!

I'm not getting loads back, but recently cut 30 different keys for a factory and I had 2 back not working and they were mostly Union 3 lever, as were both that didn't work.

 

If I cut some mortice keys today I'll see how the new set-up goes.

 

I did cut one key Saturday for the shop front door, and it worked fine so I guess I'm 100% so far

[lock&quay]

I've had problems with HD Union Pre cut keys & some Union origanal pre cuts . It turned out to be the guage of key was wrong .

[ponsaloti]

Oh me gawd

Put 2 bloody uncut blanks of the same make and type in the machine.

Trace one then swap and trace the other bloody one.

Do they both make music when the blade tickles them ?

[Michael]

Oh me gawd

Put 2 bloody uncut blanks of the same make and type in the machine.

Trace one then swap and trace the other bloody one.

Do they both make music when the blade tickles them ?

 

DOH! now why didn't I think of that after 20 years of cutting keys

 

HOW DO YOU THINK I KNOW IT'S MISSING ON THE INSIDE, A CRYSTAL F***ING BALL!!!!

 

Quote: If i put two Chubb 373 blanks in everything seems to line up perfectly, but when it comes to cutting, especially 3 lever Union, it always seems to miss the blank on the shoulder side, some worse than others.

[ponsaloti]

Sorry Mate, your not making much sense.

The reason I said use the same blanks is because you if you do, you cant blame the blanks, can you ?

 

How have you adjusted the machine over the past 20 years ?

Are the shoulder stops adjustable (pitch} ?

Is the blade the same thickness as the guide/tracer ?

Have you fitted the guide/tracer correctly (is it fitted square to the blank} ?

[Michael]

I've tried setting up with 2 of the exact same blanks but each make of blank gives a different result, and the B440/B436 Union blanks seem to be the worst.

I've always used 2 Chubb 3G114 blanks to check the machine, but it's never needed adjusting left -to-right before, only depth when I've changed the cutter.

The blade is 1.3mm thick and the new tracer was only available in 1.5mm thick, but everything was fine for months until I changed the cutter.

The guide can only be fitted 1 way but I'm wondering if it is the thickness difference between the cutter and guide and I just didn't notice it until I changed the cutter!!

[grahamparker]

The cutter and guide must be exactly the same on any machine otherwise it will take to much/not enough off the key

when cutting.

 

When i reset my machine i only use genuine blanks to test as they are a lot more accurate than copies.

 

If the problem persists and you cut a lot of keys then maybe a new machine will be the best thing in the long run.

[ponsaloti]

I cant find an image of this machine.

Sometimes I wish I was f#@king psychic

 

Before you start to cut a blank your already 0.2mm out. If you've not set up dead on, then your a little bit more out.

After 20 years of use, I'm sure your machine has a tab bit of wear.

Add all this together and I'll have A guess your at least half a mm out. Probably more.

 

If you've got a proper vernier, set it to a 0.2 gap and have a look at it up against a light.

[elfman]

it really does not matter if its a new or old machine if the tracer and the blade are two different widths it will not cut correctly

[Michael]

That's what I thought when I changed the guide, but it was only available in 1.5mm when the original was 1.3mm.

The problem only really come to light when I changed the cutter from a steel one to a titanium one, but was befuddled as to how this could cause a problem!!

The weather has killed trade today so haven't cut any mortice keys yet

[windycity]

michael

 

i think your just not good at cutting keys..

 

joking aside thats a tad annoying i know this seems obvious have you tried another new key blade from a different supplier?

 

good luck mate

[Michael]

The only 2 places that have them in stock are Keyosk @ approx £38 +vat or NWKeys @£104 + vat

 

The code is 300/1 if anyone knows anywhere else that has them at a reasonable price!!

[elfman]

the coating could be whats cousing the problem

[Michael]

Bit of a tenious link to this thread, but I've just got an order from DB in which I ordered GL004 Kb430 genuine union 5lever mortice blank and the delivery note said " discontinued when current stock gone" !!!

 

Is this everywhere or just DB?

[Lee]

thats ashame I like those blanks.