ironplanet uk900 Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 What would you guys do in this situation. Had a customer in one of our shops with a pair of fake Ugg boots last week. The sheepskin on the one boot was of an inferior quality, and when the woman had put them on it split all down the side seam. The customer was told that we could only darn across the tear,and there was no gaurentee as the hide was very brittle. The customer left them with us, When they were picked up off the counter we noticed there was a "V" tear in the toe. So the boots were put to one side to show the customer on thier return. When the customer returned we pointed out that we hadn't carried out the work because we had seen a futher tear in the upper. The customer say's it wasn't there when they brought it in And the boots cost £160 on the internet. What would you do, and does anybody know how we stand legally. I'm really Pi55ed off cus this guy is a scammer. and we should have noticed the tear, but it was a very neat tear and unnoticable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 I would tell him that you are prepared to send them back to ugg and act on their decision. they should then be found to be counterfeit and you then ask your customer what he wants to do carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 I would tell him that you are prepared to send them back to ugg and act on their decision.they should then be found to be counterfeit and you then ask your customer what he wants to do carry on! Thanks Jo, He says he brought them from an Austrailian Web site. So sending them back would be an expense to me, which at the moment I'm not prepared to undertake. We did nothing to these boots, so I don't see its my responsabillity. But legally I don't know how I stand.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobblers Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 do you have CCTV in your shop uk that could prove that you didn't start to repair the boots? you could always send them to arbitration, can't we as a forum or one of the members of the cutting edge committee/somsr help with that? sorry i can't be of more help rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 For starters there has to be a recorded transaction with Internet sales either via one of the payment forwarding agencies like Paypal or credit card/bank statements. Secondly unless the original repair has been carried out the second tear is of a very minor nature compared to the original fault and any compensation awarded would be on a percentage of the total if it came to court. If the boots have been manufactured with a material that is not of merchantable quality then it is the retailer that is responsible for the sale refund. An examination by a specialist can determine the nature and cause of both defects but you have to pay for the examination. I would call his bluff and tell him that as a leather specialist you can verify that the animal skin is faulty by nature or has been subject to abuse by wear/storage/cleaning and if he wishes to get an indepenant report he is quite welcome to.Then give him the name & address of "Intertec Testing Services" (could be Intertek) they advertise in trade mags so it should be easy to find on the internet through Google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 cctv isn't really conclusive Good point about cutting edge, I would like to know the legalities, this guy is a definate scammer, and I don't want to give him an inch. Cheers Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Am92 Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 i had a similar problem a couple of years ago. a women dropped of a pair of shoes for re-heeling,left them in a carrier bag on the counter in a rush as she could'nt wait as i had a shopfull at the time,said she would call back in a couple hours.when i took them out of the bag i noticed the shank was broken on one of the shoes so i put them to one side to wait for her to come back to see if she wanted to pay for new shanks as they were only cheap shoes.when she came back she turned the air blue accusing me of this and that,then there always a £150 pair she would'nt have it that i did not do anthing to them,so in the end i said told her to go to trading standards if she felt i had damaged her shoes.before she left the shop i reminded her "that obtaining goods or services by deception is a criminal offence"i never heard anymore from her.there are certain people who try to scam their way round small businesses it makes you wonder how often they get away with it. with the description you've given of the boots i would call their bluff,i can't see any trading standards/citizens advice/legal service taking on their case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter / Sweden Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Since you done no visible repair on the shoes, it must be a matter between the manufacturer and the customer. I would tell HER to contact/ send the shoes to the manufacturer, as they had a rip in the first place, and THAT is NOT your fault. The first rip was there when he showed up with them, and obviously it is not so strange if there is another? She is just trying to push the problem over to you. Get rid of her, she will never, WHATEVER, become a customer to you. Peter / Sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 A very valuable lesson to be learned from this for all. No1. Inspect every job, looking for loose heels, broken shanks, worn toes/soles/heels, damaged Insocks, not matter what the shoes or boots come in to have done to them. No2. I nspect for marks and abrasions on the uppers and not only bring these to the attention of the customer but get them to sign the ticket. No3. Yes it is a pain in the bum to have to do this when you are very busy but, 8 times out of 10 you have not only averted a difficult situation later, but got the opportunity to double the profit on that one job by bringing the need for the extra work to the attention of the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 A very valuable lesson to be learned from this for all. No1. Inspect every job, looking for loose heels, broken shanks, worn toes/soles/heels, damaged Insocks, not matter what the shoes or boots come in to have done to them. No2. I nspect for marks and abrasions on the uppers and not only bring these to the attention of the customer but get them to sign the ticket. No3. Yes it is a pain in the bum to have to do this when you are very busy but, 8 times out of 10 you have not only averted a difficult situation later, but got the opportunity to double the profit on that one job by bringing the need for the extra work to the attention of the customer. I think most of us know this, and practice it with most customers. This Customer knew what they were doing, as I said it was a very neat tear. its a deliberate attempt to embezzle £160 out of my company. We know we've done nothing wrong. I only need to know legalities, my rights etc Thanks for the replies so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain Cheall Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I would call their bluff what they going to do they have a pair of fraudulent fake boots. Failing that ask him to come to the shop, make sure the cctv is off and the place is empty then punch his lights out Where is Lee's legal team have they not got any suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods. Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. Key Facts: • Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale). • Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description. • Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety. • It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract. • If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances) • For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement). • A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement. • If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit • In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years). • If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty) • After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity. I would say to the customer the boots where inherently faulty (toe rip originally taken in) and that an effective repair is not possible & she should return them to the retailer. State very clearly that is is not your responsibility to replace the boots, as they where faulty when she brought them in, advice her to seek legal advice & offer her http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/ telephone number. If it goes further, send them to the MSA for an independent report. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Incidentally from the consumers point of view, You have the same rights as before you agreed to the repair - prior to having the repair carried out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Thankyou Lee, thats what I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I believe the law has recently been ammended to include the Manufacturer as being legally responcible for faulty goods, I think it changes about 3 years ago, taking away the right of the manufacturer to remain outside the law. The testing by the MSA, is this a free service and do you have to be a member to use it.? Perhaps this service should be more widely publicised so that members know that they can send Footwear to be accessed. I was aware of it but had forgotten it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x minit uk Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I can not really add any more than whats been said apart from when I worked for mr T a similar thing happened and because I did not show the customer at the time of taking the shoes in we had to pay out. Made me feel a right knob, and also made me look guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest k@lsb Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 A MAJOR POINT HERE............................ fact..you as the repairer have the sole responsability.in showing the customer the mark or tear on the bag or shoes wasnt there before they leave the shop ..if you have failed to do this..and the customer says you did it.................you have to prove you did not do it ,not the other way round.you are at fault if you can not prove this..the customer does not have to prove anything at all..you must prove it was not there when left.......i no this is true as we had a real case like this...and we were told in no uncetain terms...if we could not prove it was not there when bought in..we were liable........this is the law.....go to court and see youreself.....meet her/him half way swallow youre pride and take a lesson from it............you wont win this if they do take you to court..it used to be it was up to the customer to prove it..but the courts now say its up to the retailer to prove it..if you can not...youre guilty.....certainly makes you look in future..good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Problem is k@lsb, there isnt a amrk but a fault with the upper material I think and this puts it into a different bracket. As I posted earlier, check every shoe for that extra work and all the faults will be noticed. If it is a mark that could have been done by anyone and anything and was not noticed initially then it's as k&lsb has stated, in a court of law judgement will be given to the plaintiff unless you can prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windycity Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 hi uk before you do any more, speak to your insurance company, as i'm sure they would have an interest in this. regards farty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain Cheall Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Had a customer in one of our shops with a pair of fake Ugg boots last week. I think this factor is the main point here if the boots a fake then the customer has committed a crime buying them and therefore won't want to go anywhere near a court. Ask her her name and address and the details of where they came from and tell her you are going to send them to UGG for them to assess and repair/replace for her. She/he will run a mile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Had a customer in one of our shops with a pair of fake Ugg boots last week. I think this factor is the main point here if the boots a fake then the customer has committed a crime buying them and therefore won't want to go anywhere near a court. Ask her her name and address and the details of where they came from and tell her you are going to send them to UGG for them to assess and repair/replace for her. She/he will run a mile Have done all that Iain...............Haven't heard anything for a few days....maybe your right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobblers Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 failing all else, and as long as they have no proof, tell the customer to prove they were even in your shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 failing all else, and as long as they have no proof, tell the customer to prove they were even in your shop Tut Tut Tut You naughty boy Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 I was gonna mention a few threats of extreme violence may do the trick, but thought that might be a tad unprofessional And who would blame you.I hate customers trying to take me for a mug,it really p***es me off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 I was gonna mention a few threats of extreme violence may do the trick, but thought that might be a tad unprofessional And who would blame you.I hate customers trying to take me for a mug,it really p***es me off I agree Michael. But you have to bite your tongue........which is very hard for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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