Key, cutting courses

[Johnuk4]

Hello, all.

 

I’m thinking of starting a new business which will revolve around cutting keys. The problem is I don’t really have any experience in this field and would like to learn. The business idea will mainly be online so I guess it would be cutting the code and from the pictures that customers send me of the keys. Are there are any courses available that I could take that will prepare me to provide this service? 
 

Thank you in advance.

 

John

[Auto Key Wizard]

Good luck with that, That service is already covered massively

[rapidlocks]

As terry says , this is already covered massively .

theres no courses as such for the skills you will need , a key skill is key reading , being able to read the key cuts by eye , even more of skill to read peoples idea of a clear photo , for these skills you largely teach yourself or if lucky get someone to teach you as an apprentice and learn this way.

the lay out for this is not as simple as buy a few machines and off you go , you are going to need excellent cut to code machines and in many cases licences and authorisations to cut various high security keys , pointless having the card data if you dont have the machines and authorisations to be able to cut them .

silca triax and silca unocode machines would be the machines of choice for such , especially if hoping to cut heavy duty quantities .

you buy top end machines as above and the distributor will normally give you a days training on their use .

Also many blanks are restricted , to get the authorisation to stock and cut them will require you to stock high volumes and minimum purchase amounts to get the keys to cut , on top of the machines and licences.

customers will only be interested in an online service for keys cut that the cheap high street and market key cutters cant do cheaply , these are the keys that require the above .

this is a large investment for very little return for most , there are not many that can make a living by cutting keys alone , especially with no experience.

so it depends on what keys you hope to cut and what investment you intend making to set up .

you need research into what you hope to cut , then research these brands to see what is involved to get the keys and authorisation , what machines you need and where your market will be , as a competative market .

good luck

[kobblers]

Rapidlocks is 100% bang on.

From someone who trades online: it's a bloody minefield and a massive learning curve from when I used to cut keys face-to-face for customers.

Even now, I still have to ask for advice and help from some of the more learned members of this forum and I've been cutting keys for 38 years............

One of the biggest issues I face is that nearly all customers will blame YOU if there's an issue - even if it's 100% a fault of theirs and are extremely quick to criticise you online.

You also get customers who are obtuse, at best, and ignorant at worst - the type who send images of keys side-on, instead of sending them laid flat so you can clearly see the cuts and blank type. Also those who send you the head of a snapped key with no code and ask if you can supply them with a new copy.......this is more common than you think.

One of the other issues is Royal Mail losing items or delivering them at a much later date - by then, you've already refunded or replaced - wiping out any profit you may have made.

If, as you say, you have no experience - get plenty working from a shop for the general public before even contemplating going online as you WILL lose out, very, very quickly.

I've learned so many things from this forum about reading keys from images and identifying the correct blank, especially where there are no codes and I'm STILL learning - especially with vehicle keys.

I'm fairly lucky as I get a lot of repeat customers with decent-sized orders, and this is what keeps me afloat. Individual customers, alone, wouldn't pay the bills as they nearly all want it for next to nothing as there are way too many traders working for pennies.

All that said, I wish you luck if you decide to go ahead, as you'll definitely need it - oh, and a god to pray to...........

Rick.

[grahamparker]

Agree with all the above and i do a lot of photo key cutting but I have all the machines mentioned and the skill to do this kind of job.

It is not something you can easily teach to be honest. Learning on the job is by far the best way to go.

I am just now learning to decode double bit safe keys by eye now I have a Silca Idea and it is not always as easy as it looks.

Practice and experiance are required in abundance and a working knowledge of every key system you will come across.

We currently cut 20-30 thousand keys a year and I have been cutting keys for over 42 years and I would never want to try to beat the price of others already selling online.

Whatever you charge someone will always be willing to undercut you, I considered selling online and via ebay etc but the profit margin is so low for all the skill and effort and when the royal mail lose your parcel you have cover the cost of resending. This and the fact many others are more established makes it a difficult place to start in.

Good luck with your venture but DO a lot more homework before deciding to jump into and already very competetive market place.

[Johnuk4]

Thank you very much guys, very inciteful. I have to say I didn't realise you would need licenses etc to cut certain types of keys. I assumed there would be third-party blanks you could use instead of the original key manufacturer's blanks. I will certainly be conducting a lot of research following on from this.

All the best

[grahamparker]

Just to give you an idea the following offer restricted systems. Evva, Assa, Tigris, Abloy, Ankerslot,  Mul.t.lock, Abus Pfaffenhain, BKS, Yale, Union the list goes on and on. These listed I can either cut myself or have obtained in the last 12 months. Many at ridiculous costs and with hefty price tags.

[rapidlocks]

The types of keys people will generally look online to get cut are the keys most high street shops cannot cut , ie restricted keys that no copy blank is available for , these are the ones that you must have authorisations to stock and cut . though many locksmith shops can cut a range of these especially if for locks they stock and fit.

After all restricted locks and keys are supposed to be secure , thats why people buy them , for this added peace of mind ,  they wouldnt be as secure if anyone could buy blanks and cut them easily.

i live in a small town , we have a shoe repairer who cuts cheap keys in his shop , a greetings card shop that cuts cheap keys from their shop , a hardware shop that cuts cheap keys from there shop and a market trader who pitches up twice a week cutting even cheaper keys , i cant see there customers buying everyday keys for more online.

for adequate cut to code machines , authorisations and licences , stock etc , you will require a larger investment than you may think , all to do a range of keys that is already massively covered online .

my advice is to do some thorough research before parting with your money.

[Johnuk4]

Thank you all for your very informative information. With regards to licenses etc how does it work with compatible keys? I have recently used a site called replacementkeys.co.uk they seem to be one of the biggest suppliers in the country and top a google search. I had a high security Yale key cut by them and the blank they used was ‘compatible’. It was much longer than the original but does the job. I get having a license to cut originals but surely you can cut compatible keys to get around this? Looking at their site they supply compatible keys for all the big brands. 
 

I totally get customers only wanting keys they cannot easily get cut on the high street but this company have thousands upon thousands of reviews and their declared company returns are off the scale. If you ask me their website is very average so clearly there is a huge demand and room for improvement which is what originally sparked my interest. 
 

All the best

 

John 

[rapidlocks]

theres a number of what you may call high security keys , theres also restricted sections , theres a huge difference .

take garrison keys , these were once well restricted with no aftermarket blank and even once had its own machine to cut them , today you can buy aftermarket blanks , so thse can be cut by any key cutting shop in any town these days , as can many other keys you may consider to be high security that actually are not.

once patents/restrictions etc expire or someone releases a restricted section without these , then the 3rd party blanks appear , until then no aftermarket blank manufacturer will even look at producing an aftermarket blank .

theres a huge difference between protected systems and keys and those that are not protected , it is only these protected systems that you require licences and authorisations for , not every day locks and keys , even those that claim to be high security but actually are not.

What you have to remember is where an aftermarket blank is available , its not a restricted keyway and it isnt really a high security system as such , as such the aftermarket blanks are available to everyone and anyone , so all the key cutting shops , all the market traders and all the locksmiths and of course you , anybody can obtain these and anybody with a machine can cut these .

so theres a world of difference between a restricted system and a free for all system , if a blank and a cutting card is generally available then it is not a restricted key and then freely available to all .

forget brands , ie Yale as a brand , yes there are hundreds of aftermarket keys available for yale locks , but this is not the case for their restricted master systems , same with every lock maker , theres a world of difference between a protected system and one that is not .

it is the protected systems that can command far better rates though a far smaller market , but at a cost to you to be able to cut them , the non protected systems are those that aftermarket blanks are available for , but these are available to all and sundry, but even some of these you must jump through hoops to get the cutting cards and data.

some lock makers want their keys to be easily copied , some do not .

you still need research and a clear understanding on what you can and you cant supply , the skills you will need and the equipment you will require , then the sales potential and pricing and margins , alot more to it than buy a few machines and off you go.

[grahamparker]

It's not about getting Licenses it's about becoming a stockist.

Take Ultion keys, if you want to cut to code you have to become a stockist, first they check if anyone is in your area already supplying if they are and spend a fair bit of money then they will not give you an account.

The Initial order is usually a couple of thousand pounds for stock and key blanks to set you up as a supplier. They then allow you access to the decoding page.

After you have spent all this money they will then turn around and say your cutting to many keys (they want to supply them direct if they can to make more money) so they will restrict you to 2 keyblanks for every cylinder you purchase. If you start to use the decode page to much they then realise you are cutting on copy blanks and shut your access down.

All the above happened to me and we have spent thousands with them.

Not all companies operate this way but for every system you wish to supply expect to be paying at least 50k in stock to be able to cut many of the restricted keys.

Even then companies like mul.t.lock and Abloy will not allow you to duplicate keys supplied by another stockist.

If I supply a masater keyed restricted system to a customer the last thing we both want is for someone else duplicating the keys.

Yale keys have never been restricted unless part of a master key system.

 

 

[grahamparker]

Oh and mul.t.lock interactive blanks have just become available recently on the uk 115 section as that system is now out of patent but you still need the machines/cutters to be able to duplicate them correctly. These have previously only been available from the original stockist.

Say you buy a profiling key blank machine and duplicate one of my Pfaffenhain master keys for one of my customers. Ypou have just blown the security of the system wide open and I along with the customer would attempt to take court action against you for replacement of the system.

Now this is the huge grey area many key cutters do not attempt to cross but many will and it would be a rather difficult and expensive operation on all sides to go to court.

 

 

[rapidlocks]

It would be wise to consider working for a key cutting shop to learn from the basics upwards , as despite it just being a key , there is alot to learn including;

1) stocking and selecting the correct key blank , as there are thousands of different key blanks , some look the same or very similar , knowing your blanks and profiles is essential, getting to know the manufacturers systems and quirks which they all have.

2) learning how to site read a key , cylinder keys , mortice keys , tubular keys , dimple keys , edge car keys , laser track car keys etc , learning how to site read in hand , from photo etc , all key types differ but a vital skill to master .

3) an understanding of the various key types , profiles and sizes.

4)suppliers as not all are good 

5) buy a program like instacode with key sizes , data , depth and space info etc to study

6) learn how to set up , calibrate and use the various key cutting machines 

all basics , best way to learn this is doing it under supervision of someone training you from the begining .

you say you totally get most wanting to quickly and cheaply get key cut locally rather than online , but you talk about using aftermarket key blanks ? readily available keys that can be cut on cheaper aftermarket blanks are exactly what people can get cut almost anywhere already.

if you want to cut to photo , your site reading skills are vital even with a good clear photo , you then need to id the correct blank to use , you then need a good cut to code machines and possibly a clamp and adaptor to cut it and produce the key.

if to be viable you must know the basics inside and out , and if purely online you need to do what cannot be easily done in the high street and in local shops 

the company you mention replacementkeys.co.uk is just 1 of many companies online offering a similar range of keys , many more offering less of a range and others offering more restricted keys , the internet is full of them. Graham who has answered above i suspect cuts as many if not more keys a year than most of them .

to offer the widest range you need a number of cut to code machines to do this by photo or by code again my suggestion would be , it depends on the market you want to attract.

triax pro dimple and laser and an unocode f series cut to code for cylinder will be around £50K plus vat , and by the time you add in the various clamps , cutters and adaptors this will rise steeply , all before stock requirements , cheaper lesser machines wont do all you want and will soon need replacing , you need heavy duty machines for such an online business looking for volume cutting anything less can be a costly mistake and false economy.

to set up to do a good range i estimate it will be well over £100k set up to compete online probably far more , thats set up not eventual total cost, to learn enough to do this will also take time and committed study.

 

 

[Gray]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:37 PM, Johnuk4 said:

Hello, all.

 

I’m thinking of starting a new business which will revolve around cutting keys. The problem is I don’t really have any experience in this field and would like to learn. The business idea will mainly be online so I guess it would be cutting the code and from the pictures that customers send me of the keys. Are there are any courses available that I could take that will prepare me to provide this service? 
 

Thank you in advance.

 

John

Where are you located. I am reaching retirement age. (I tell a lie, I've gone past that now) Still working though. I have a shop in N.Wales Lovely part of the world. I only do basic cylinder, mortice keys now. I leave the complicated stuff to these guys on here I can run you through the basic stuff to get you started if you fancy a holiday. You have already had answers off the top go to guys on here.  Auto Key Wizard  grahamparker and rapidlocks.   They are the best there is on this forum. 

 

[Johnuk4]

Hello Everyone

Thank you so much for all taking the time to respond in such detail. Looks like I have a lot to consider and learn before considering setting up shop, but feel like I have a much better-starting place than a week ago.

 

All the best 

 

John