silca fast copy scrambling keys

[dawn]

Hi all had a bad experience last week

Colleague of mine read a peugeut 406 2000/01 key told customer price didnt want key doing

Customer comes back 10 minutes later his key wont start car has anyone else had this problem

Cheers nick clark

[StevenB]

I don't want to sound cynical here, but is there any proof that the key was working before it was brought into the shop?

[hibsjo(SCO)]

Hi Dawn

very much doubt the machine has scrambled the logic on key.

there will be some underlying problem with car.

we had a Seat last year where we offered to cut another key(after checking chip) customer came back shouting the odds that the car wouldnt start blaming us for tampering with key!

car was recovered to local garage where we found the timing belt had slipped (obviously not allowing car to fire in sequence) had been an ongoing problem not reported to us at the time,

NEVER got an apology from customer!

so unless there is a fundamental problem with the fast copy(which I doubt) its not your fault

carry on!

[Mick Friend]

Ah! customers

I once had two lads on a saturday morning bring in a key snapped in half. We never offered a guarentee with these, and I made that clear, I cut the key and off they went 10 mins later they are back with a third bigger geezer - who spoke 'dis key is no good man it dont work, dey needin dare money back' No way Jose! its a good copy should be no problem, does it go in? 'Yeh but it dont turn' - maybe its the wrong key! ' well it works in my car'- Uh! 'yeh man everyone knows dat ford is all de same init'

 

ARRGHHHHHHH wondered why I chased them out of the shop with a broom

[gazzaull22]

Hi Dawn

 

If the pug 406 was a id45 transponder then yes it can scramble the key so it will not start the car(removed the key from the machine to quick), if you have updated your machine there was instructions regarding this problem and how to sort it out, also the trs5000 had the same problem and i had to recode the keys for a freind of mind via diagnostics before it would work, jma sorted this problem out with a free update.

 

Check your instructions regarding the pug id45 chips

[Kris Polan]

Transponder must be again programmed into the car. Some of transponder devices have PIN reading option (from transponder). Then simply it can be programmed again. If reading PIN is impossible - write me PM with VIN of car. I 'll give you PIN for this Peugeot. Of course - key programer device is necesary.

Hope problem will be solved.

Regards

Kris

[ponsaloti]

Agree. If only reading, it is immposible to alter the custome key but be aware, if you put the customers key into your cloning machine and press random buttons, you may cause a problem with the key and be liable. Rightly so.

Dont let suppliers talk you into beleiving its all childs play. With a cloning machine, you have the ability to confuse and send to sleep the brain of someone's vehicle.

[dawn]

Hi all

Thanks for your input on this matter peugeot was definately a runner as it was in our car park at morrisons

I think gazull has the answer in the key was taken out to quickly Matt at silca gave me the same answer

unforunately when i got on scene car was already on back of low loader going to peugeot who are next door to us

Maybe silca or davenports could share this information to stop some one else making same mistake

[Lee]

that was a nasty one Dawn, I feel for you. Bad news Hopefully by raising the issue on here, it might just stop the same mistake happening to someone else.

 

Lee

[Mick Friend]

unfortunately - you can by tools and play with them, destroy customers property and its all too common.

The responsability lies with the seller of these tools, proper and full training should be built into the price, adequate warnings of what could go wrong should be made clear.

I know someone who nearly seriously injured a child who was playing in the drivers seat when he connected to the cars system to 'read the eprom' he had no idea what he was doing and the driver airbag went off throwing the child into the rear seat. The supplier said it could never happen - but it did.

I have to connect to automatic door systems either with a laptop or programmer, if I tweek the wrong parameter the door could crush someone - now how topical is that?

[gazzaull22]

This is what you need :

 

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4078&p=40919&hilit=silca+rw4+update#p40919

 

read chapter 7.3 Regenerate Key 42 and 45 (page 19)

This is what you need to do when key has been removed to quick and it sorts the problem out

 

Hope this helps

[ponsaloti]

unfortunately - you can by tools and play with them, destroy customers property and its all too common.

The responsability lies with the seller of these tools, proper and full training should be built into the price, adequate warnings of what could go wrong should be made clear.

 

Mick, the responsabilty must ultimatly lie with the operator. If he hasnt had proper training, he shouldnt operate the machine although I must agree, suppliers should make aware misuse can cause damage.

90% + wouldnt buy the kit if they also had to buy the training.

[lockdecoders]

It can happen with all transponder cloning machines when reading ID45 keys as they take the key out toooo fast. It is simple to then just read the pin code off the back of the transponder electronically and then program the key back in.

 

Pete

[kingkey]

pete ,2 things are dependent on that,1, the customer has the car with them ,2, the person cloning the key has a method of programming the key back in , lots of cobblers up and down the country only have cloning equipment and will be well and truly stuffed if and when this happens to them.

my advice to any guys out there with only cloning capabilities, would be to get yourselves friendly with any auto locksmiths in your area, you could easily get them on your side by sending all the jobs you cant do , in return im sure we would react quickly and get the cars running again asap , sounds to me like a win win situation.if you want a choice of people to contact http://www.advanced-locksmiths.co.uk/uk ... locate.php put your postcode in and have a chat with who is in your area ,

working together would be better than having an angry customer or having to pay main dealer prices and towing charges to a recovery service

what do you all think ?

[keithm]

Good post Kingkey =D> =D> =D>

[Lee]

Pete is this a known problem with the key crypt pro/ad900 ?

[redcap]

unfortunately - you can by tools and play with them, destroy customers property and its all too common.

The responsability lies with the seller of these tools, proper and full training should be built into the price, adequate warnings of what could go wrong should be made clear.

 

Mick, the responsabilty must ultimatly lie with the operator....

 

=D>

 

The correct operating prodceedure is in the RW4/Fast copy manual. When I first read about the potential problems I put a sticker on my machine as a reminder. Blaming the supplier because the operator cannot be bothered to read it (or does not understand it) is a rather unjust reaction (although not uncommon in todays society where an error is always, apparently, somebody elses fault ).

[Mick Friend]

I was not blaming the supplier, but you can buy this equipment on the internet. My point was that £? should be added as a training guide.

So Mr Redcap when was the last time you cleverly read an instruction manual from front to back and understood what you had read? cause I'm blowed if I have ever done it, plug it in and let stick something in here!

You should not have to put a sticker on anything, any warnings should be in place before you unpack the box.

Now were's that instruction book for the new pack of toilet rolls?

[redcap]

The responsability lies with the seller of these tools...

 

I was not blaming the supplier.....

 

[Mick Friend]

you know full well what I was getting at - the supplier has a duty of care, which is not evident if the machine can corrupt a key and there is no warning

Plonka

[grahamparker]

My rw4 has just scrambled a volkswagon transporter (1997) key.

 

I read the key as normal said it was a 42 (t10) i then told customer how

much it would be.

Read the customers key which was attatched to a large bunch of keys which slipped

and lifted the customers key about 50mm upwards and the rw4 came up with a fault reading.

I then popped the key back in and tried to copy only to be told chip is know a 44.

Not sure what has happened but vehicle is on its way to garage as i am typing.

 

WOULD SUGGEST REMOVAL OF ANY TRANSPONDER KEY FROM BUNCH WHEN READING IN ANY MACHINE.

 

I will be taking this matter up with silca in due course once i recieve the bill from the customer.

 

[redcap]

you know full well what I was getting at - the supplier has a duty of care, which is not evident if the machine can corrupt a key and there is no warning

Plonka

So you are not blaming the supplier, but the supplier is at fault because they have a duty of care towards a customer who has not bothered to read the relevant section in the manual they were supplied (copies of which are freely, and readily, available for download on the internet)?

 

...and that makes ME the 'plonker'?

 

Why is it that certain elements, incapable of presenting a clearly defined and cohesive argument, find the need to resort to personal abuse instead? Personally I find that just a little bit sad.

 

Anyway, here's what the maual says;

 

 

Not, in my opinion, particularly uncomprehensible. This is right before the section that clearly explains how to regenerate the key if you have messed it up!

[Mick Friend]

whatever - you are obviously a highly experianced school teacher.

 

Ignore my points and continue with your own - I think if you can kill a key by it wiggling in the box, it should at least have that in bold and in 16 point in the instruction manual as well as on the machine.

Luckily you will never make that kind of mistake and always read the instructions before unwrapping a new toilet roll.

 

If that was on general sale to the public the seller would be crucified in court - end of discussion

[Lee]

I feel the pain of anyone who's had this happen to them, but have to admit to a little giggle at redcaps last reply

Nice when the black & white proves a point & its a point well made, that might just help out the next "plonker" to receive this error, good luck people!

 

Lee

[redcap]

Luckily you will never make that kind of mistake and always read the instructions before unwrapping a new toilet roll.

You are making a great leap of faith there in your vain effort to be dismissive of an alternative point of view!

 

I screw up ALL the time. Daily. Even when I've read the instrutions. That's why I have reminder stickers on various piece of equipment. I am far to easily distracted. However; I was brought up in an environment where I was taught to take personal responsibilty for my actions, instead of immediately trying to find someone else to blame.

 

Sure, there are plenty of examples where equipment can be rightly blamed for it's inherent faults and, in those circumstances, the manufacturers should be taken to task. It's just that this, in my opinion, is not one of them.