toofatbyfar Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Would the amount of extra teeth and added depth not generate more heat on the faster rotating machines ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 keith, this cutter looks like it will cut alot deeper?? is it interchangable with the power type? ...and is it still adjustable? Yes on both counts. it cuts deeper, but (sorry to offer my unbiased opinion Keith) this is sometimes annoying! great on the "majority" of gents leather soles, but if your stitching a fine leather sole of 8 iron of thinner its a bit too deep. As you can see from this picture of the "old" type & the "New" one they are both adjustable. the new one has a smaller circumference collar meaning its less likely to touch the inside edge of the upper at the waist which is an added bonus! One irritation I've had is the screw that holds the blade on is a right hand thread & this is screwed into a left hand thread in the attachment. Mine kept coming lose & is hard to tighten because the threads work against each other. A drop of stud lock resolved this issue. Would the amount of extra teeth and added depth not generate more heat on the faster rotating machines ? it does get warm but no more than the old design, although the knurling on the old design made quick removal easier. the extra teeth & design of the spacer/guide are a step forward from the old one for sure. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofatbyfar Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Yes on both counts. it cuts deeper, but (sorry to offer my unbiased opinion Keith) this is sometimes annoying! great on the "majority" of gents leather soles, but if your stitching a fine leather sole of 8 iron of thinner its a bit too deep. i agree, to groove 1mm more than normal would be too much,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 however this is only achieved with the new guide, I'm not sure but believe the blade can be used on your current guide? & that its the guide that determines depth? Keith? Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 The thickness of most soles used by repairers is around 5-6mm, the depth of the groover is 3mm. I am not aware of any complaints on depth, other than Lee's of course We have supplied in excess of 400 to the trade worldwide over the last 3 years and it has been very well received The depth is NOT governed by the guide, but is fixed, regardless of collar type. The smaller guide is a much better design and helps prevent damage to uppers. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 You can either use one or you can't..... I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I am not aware of any complaints on depth, other than Lee's of course I've never complained about the depth, just past an opinion. when I need a shallower grove I use a hand tool. But then I can. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I am not aware of any complaints on depth, other than Lee's of course I've never complained about the depth, just past an opinion. when I need a shallower grove I use a hand tool. But then I can. Lee Lee. do you groove as deep near the waist of a half sole............. Back...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 If you are confident of the waist joint, you wouldn't stitch anywhere near it I used to stop around 15-20mm short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 If you are confident of the waist joint, you wouldn't stitch anywhere near it I used to stop around 15-20mm short sorry Keith, your wrong. I can't remember anyone bringing back to me a failed waist, I don't think anyone ever has... Bet you did !!! I stitch past the waist whenever possible, it looks the boll*cks and is the way your repair should look....... "as if it hasn't been repaired" How many in the JR competition followed your method ?? non I suspect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windycity Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 i like to have two machine groovers one for blake and one for outsole saves alot of messing around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 i like to have two machine groovers one for blake and one for outsole saves alot of messing around Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 If you are confident of the waist joint, you wouldn't stitch anywhere near it I used to stop around 15-20mm short I have never stitched beyond the waist joint. You are stitching through the skived joint which is the thinnest part of the sole. You can effectivly cut through the sole at its weakest point. I've always stitched 10-15mm short. For those who do stitch through do you groove through aswell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 If you are confident of the waist joint, you wouldn't stitch anywhere near it I used to stop around 15-20mm short I have never stitched beyond the waist joint. You are stitching through the skived joint which is the thinnest part of the sole. You can effectivly cut through the sole at its weakest point. I've always stitched 10-15mm short. For those who do stitch through do you groove through aswell? RLJ, I challenge you to give me a detailed chain of events whilst you are doing a leather half sole on a pair of goodyear welted gents shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Ok a good way is a 50/50 skive not cutting deep into the old sole and not stitching through, a bad way is cutting deep into the old sole causing a weakness in the old sole which is already old and weak possibly and stitching through. I then put a line of tingles across the waist. This method has stood the test of time with us for 4 generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 can you be more specific, as to what is " Bad & Good" in your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I do mine as Planet says =D> Groove right through, and if you take your time and have spliced properly you won't groove through the sole at the waist. This is a pair I repaired, no nails needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 At the risk of repeating myself. A good way in my opinion (which will not be changed BTW) is a 50/50 skive not cutting deep into the old sole and not stitching through. Stitching to about 10-15mm above the waist line. I then put a line of tingles across the waist. This method has stood the test of time with us for 4 generations. A bad way is cutting deep into the old sole and stitching through. Or even stitching through at all Is that more simple for you to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I do mine as Planet says =D> Groove right through, and if you take your time and have spliced properly you won't groove through the sole at the waist. THAT'S THE WAY TO DO IT =D> =D> =D> =D> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windycity Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 since the crunch and the price of metal went high i blake(chain stitch simply the best) the waist from left to right and they never lift =D> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 since the crunch and the price of metal went high i blake(chain stitch simply the best) the waist from left to right and they never lift =D> Shank snapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Sorry gents but you have gone off the thread of "Moccassins" onto Welted. But while I'm here.....Groove to within 8/10mm of joint and then stitch into the waist. Gives that extra bit of bondage as the night ladies say. If you have rivit the waist or god forbid "Blake" the waist then I'm glad you aint doing my shoes. Now and again I do admit that I have Rivited the waists on some of my own shoes or where asked by customers but then I only use Brass. Iron goes rusty and ruins the leather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 since the crunch and the price of metal went high i blake(chain stitch simply the best) the waist from left to right and they never lift =D> Blake the waist post a pic of that please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I have so much to say.......but have lost the will..... after chatting in the chatroom All I can say is, you do it your way and I'll do it properly.... Nails and only stitching part way round...beggers belief to me...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 BLAKE THE WAIST blimey i take it you were jesting? carry on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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