Danny King Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 You, I, or anyone else in the trade should not be worried what, or how others do things. Whether its Timpsons or an Independant.Its what you do in your business that counts. If you are doing well then you must be doing something right (are Timpsons not doing well !!!) We are not running a huge empire which is a whole different ball game. Some of you, myself included could learn a hell of a lot from the running of a good Timpson outlet, and I'm sure they could learn a bit from us guys. I am immensley proud of my business and my staff, I personally don't believe there are many who offer a better service (my opinion). But.... If I owned the Timpson brand, I'd be even prouder, and rightly so..a hugh successful machine that must take a hell of alot of maintainance. Respect were its due. Its easy to run your own one man business, but try taking on staff and leaving them to it, thats when you'll show Timpsons a little respect the countries full of lazy "drongo's" who wouldn't know what a conciencious days work was if it smacked them in the face, unless your standing over em. You after a job with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Well put Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfman Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 ok planet and i go to a war of words again ( sorry mark) but i think if you read my post ,i did say at one time and yes i agree they are successful and yes they have changed the way they operate but this was not allways the case , which is possably why it was sold to the uds group , which then sold it to hanson trust who then sold it back to the timpson family in a managment buy out, so i ask are they carrying on what the previous owners started or did they start the rebuilding of the company , i did not pull timpsons down or decry them i merly stated that they were part of the problem at ONE TIME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 ok planet and i go to a war of words again ( sorry mark) but i think if you read my post ,i did say at one time and yes i agree they are successful and yes they have changed the way they operate but this was not allways the case , which is possably why it was sold to the uds group , which then sold it to hanson trust who then sold it back to the timpson family in a managment buy out, so i ask are they carrying on what the previous owners started or did they start the rebuilding of the company , i did not pull timpsons down or decry them i merly stated that they were part of the problem at ONE TIME Facts are wrong elfman, family split at the beginning with huge share block being sold, but same main family member then as today. So they are still carrying on what the owner started, I was a Manager for them at that time and watched the whole transactions with great interest. The final buy back was a remarkable piece of skill on the part of those involved and some sleepless nights I would presume by the family members involved. A very interesting time when staff were allowed to buy shares in the company around this time. As for problems within the trade I think you can blamejust about all of us, it's only this last decade that customer service has taken a leap to the forefront but there is still a long way to go in many areas. A Company or Individuals reputation is at the front of the firing line every minute of the day, but years ago when the Heel Bars spung up customer service took a back seat in the pursute of profit. The larger companies were responsible for training most of the guys who now manage for others or run their own establishments and we have a lot to thank them for, yes there are wayward strays that escaped the net in the early days but who would take on board training for Shoes/Keys/engraving/Watches/Shoe Care/Jewelery/Management/Maintenance/Health & Safety and come up with a plan that would suit everyone. Very few are prepared to give valuable time and effort training others that could eventually be in competition with you as the trainer in your own branch. So much over the years has been held very close to the chest and the sharing of information and skills has been frowned upon by many. Several Trade magazines over the years have tried time and time again to bring the trade together but it invariably fell on deaf ears. In any trade you as a tradesman are only as good as your tutor can make you, but many go that stage futher and get better than the tutor by tking on board the skills of several tutors. These individuals are unique, some are members of this forum and you can tell by their input their skill levels. There are bad eggs in every basket but you cant blame the basket maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Elfman, I wasn't posting with reference to any post you made I was merely pointing out some facts that I believe are true and relevent to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfman Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 first of hugh i did say hat it was POSSABLY why they were sold and not the reason ,secondly i also ASKED if they continued the rebuild or did they start it . as you say though hugh we are providing a service and as such the way yougreet and treat your customers are of paramount importence and the old adage of the customer always being right was not quite true , i always preferd "the customer is not always right but they are always the customer and as such should be treated as you would like to be treated. planet i was looking to start agood old debate , we have not had one for a while or is it that you have mellowed in your old age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawn Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hi all the industry is definately lacking astructure for training possibly not for time served shoe repairers but for new starters the msa is looking to address this & hopefully get some funding from the government Nick Clark cobblers &keys msa member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hi Nick, not just "Any" MSA member but an MSA committee member, good to finally have the MSA's input on this one! Hi all the industry is definately lacking astructure for training I'm sure a lot of members who are lavishing their time on a trainee would dispute this! Timpson have an in house structure, as do the majority of independents! Looks like good news that the MSA have some fresh blood in the likes of you & Brian, I was told 7 months ago that the MSA where about to produce a 20k (i think it was!) training video in 6-12 months has this now been shelved? It will be interesting to see how you structure such training & to what level. Personally I think your biggest hurdle is based around this quote from Elf Man first of all who trained the trainer and who trained him and so it can go on and this applies to every trade But for me it would be more a case of what qualifies the trainer? does he hold the necessary teaching pedigree & the correct understanding of issues surrounding the class room etc. I feel the candidate you use, could make or break the entire scheme. Good Luck on this one! I sincerely hope the investment meets the demand. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 who trained the trainer? with my st john hat on where i am a trainer i can say that currently and leading up to 2012 any trainer of any type who deals with 'public' needs to have fairly good teaching qualifications. i have a grade called pttlls which is a starting grade and may have to progress up to cert ed - the equivalent of school teacher. this will give you the right to teach. what subject you teach is dependent on your underpinning knowledge of that subject then you have problems verifying this knowledge although something like shoe repairs is easier to determine, ie how long have you been one and what can you do? of course the next problem is there has never been any real structure to repairing most repairers i see reckon they are the best and do very good jobs but all use their machines differently to get the job done. do you bottom finish with a wide band or the naumkeag? do you finish soles with trimmers or bands? do you stitch or not? do you nail the waist or not? is the journey important or the destination (outcome)? who will set these standards? the idea of a standard for shoe repairing is great but it will take a long hard struggle to get there. i think it will be worth it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 teachers teach a syllabus and stick to what the syllabus is, they do not deviate from the course, so in fact like ALL walks of life teach you to pass a test! As long as "the teacher" knows how to teach the syllabus he is entitled to be called a teacher?(teachers are taught to teach a syllabus not students) carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 teachers teach a syllabus and stick to what the syllabus is, they do not deviate from the course, so in fact like ALL walks of life teach you to pass a test!As long as "the teacher" knows how to teach the syllabus he is entitled to be called a teacher?(teachers are taught to teach a syllabus not students) carry on! school teachers maybe, but teachers are not just for schools. we are taught to train students the way they need to learn easiest so that they remember stuff (people learn in different ways). we have a structure and bits we must go through but we are allowed to deviate if asked. knowing how to teach the syllabus isnt being a teacher - how to deliver learning and getting a qualification to do this means you are a teacher. where it can all go wrong is you get a teacher without sufficient underpinning knowledge. proper teachers spend many hours learning how to teach students not syllabus (syllabi?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 You are wrong hibs, some trainers teach from the books and cant deviate from the book because either they are not allowed to, or they have not the knowledge to venture into territory outside the "book" Not all tutors follow this path, some of us welcome the opportunity to diverse as long as it is following the original theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawn Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 certainly not going to be easy to be easy to put in place but there are certain techniques that should be shown to trainees the final finnishing touches are what make us individuals. The trainer will need to come from a very good background and will have to walk the walk and talk the talk nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Some even train the trainers. Some have walked and talked and are now deaf and legless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 whats that you say? oh matron can you wheel me to the toilet please.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest supperman Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 hi, i used to do the same in fact at least 3 of my employees got the 'then' city & guilds qualification! but these have been replaced and there is no more! i even tried to take the examiners test to do it myself, but the society of master shoe repairs were very reluctant to do it - even though it was costing me more than them! Mr Ray Barlow is the last (or so i think) person to do it so try to get in touch with him, and if anyone knows his whereabouts he will help. top class guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now