Locksmith my Ass

[rapidlocks]

Good thread this......

I was out at a lockout yesterday keys locked inside house,spent the first 10 mins trying to bump/pick the next ten trying to use a little homemade tool then the decision was made to **** the lock I then fitted a Grundman 90mm euro profile.

If this constitutes being a crap locksmith then I concede defeat to the purists but Ill tell you my customer was more than happy to pay me for getting them into the house and commented on how professional I had been

now I could have turned up and ******* the lock in the first 2 mins fitted the same lock and got paid the same amount of money but If i can open a lock without destroying door/lock I will.

I find 60% of the doors I go to need to be opened "destuctively" THAT IS NOT A REFLECTION ON MY SKILLS.

 

 

So let the thread continue............................

carry on!

 

was there a letter box ? if so i use the letterbox tool and treat the key as a thumb turn, if this makes sense.

 

rather than the attachment supplied for this i use my own turner, but i used to use waxed curtain cord to good effect on these.

[ironplanet uk900]

Good thread this......

I was out at a lockout yesterday keys locked inside house,spent the first 10 mins trying to bump/pick the next ten trying to use a little homemade tool then the decision was made to **** the lock I then fitted a Grundman 90mm euro profile.

If this constitutes being a crap locksmith then I concede defeat to the purists but Ill tell you my customer was more than happy to pay me for getting them into the house and commented on how professional I had been

now I could have turned up and ******* the lock in the first 2 mins fitted the same lock and got paid the same amount of money but If i can open a lock without destroying door/lock I will.

I find 60% of the doors I go to need to be opened "destuctively" THAT IS NOT A REFLECTION ON MY SKILLS.

 

was there a letter box ? if so i use the letterbox tool and treat the key as a thumb turn, if this makes sense.

 

rather than the attachment supplied for this i use my own turner, but i used to use waxed curtain cord to good effect on these.

So let the thread continue............................

carry on!

 

AND

[Auto Key Wizard]

 

The sad truth is that due to the 2 day wonders flooding the market, many good guys have shut up shop,

 

This is probably why alot of general locksmiths are moving into Auto work.

[rapidlocks]

edited , call it a senior moment

 

that and the cheap import tools and diagnostic equipment flooding the market, and again no regulation.

 

Trouble is both ICL and MLA are screaming out for regulation, most locksmiths want regulation and legislation, i guess the wholesalers are fairly happy with things as they are, due to many new start ups each month buying tools and start up stock.

But now with cheap internet shops selling picks cheaper to the public and anyone who will pay regardless of background, putting utube videos up on how to use them etc, i guess now even the wholesalers would like regulation to rid them of these shops.

 

so my question is, if most of the legitimate locksmith industry want regulation and legislation, why doesnt government etc do something about it ?

[Guest lockandkeycentre]

Hi all

 

i've been a locksmith for 8 years so as you can imagine i take great pride in my work and if i can get in to a property without damaging the lock then that's exactly what i'll do!!

 

Now listen to this, about 3 weeks ago i got a call at around 11.30pm on a fri night, an old lady was locked out literally 5 mins drive away from me, i told her that as she was so local i would come round and open the door (just a Yale Cyl) for £45 which was LESS than i would charge during the day! to my horror:roll: she replied with "oh i've had a cheaper quote" i asked her how much she'd been quoted and she said £25 callout plus the price of a new lock! I wished her luck.

 

The next morning she came in to my shop and told me the story of the £25 callout, her next question was "do you repair doors?" i must admit i giggled a little, when i went round there i could not believe my eyes, i dont what they did but where the yale was supposed to be there was just a MASSIVE hole, it looked like they'd cut around the lock and nightlatch and just bashed the lock through. They then charged her £95 because "it was more work than they'd expected"

 

So i totally agree that locksmithing should be regulated and there should be a qualification, although i do believe that this is a job where you never stop learning!!

 

Out with the Cowboys!!!!!

[Mick Friend]

As one who has written training courses and indeed lectured on many, I have moved away from general locksmithing as the cowboys have killed the goose. I now work only in disabled access control systems. Fitting door openers, remote unlocking, window controls etc. The work is nicer no out of hours, and the people I meet make me glad to be alive. Motor neuron (spelling) is horrible.

[Guest Phill]

Things aren't that bad are they Mick, I've been on coarses held by yourself in the past. (very good they are too)

I think one point not made is everyone has to start somewhere and you could go on all the coarses held at the MLA and the very next day come up against something that'll flumax you...........

 

In my experiance customers are very aware of "Yellow Pages Cowboys" and like to know your going to be there tomorrow should things not go as they imagine, so having a shop is a great advantage, more so than any advertising.

 

So I don't think its all that bad, worst for me is the "national locksmiths" Able and such like, all they are is a call centre. Take the job, phone around for a local locksmith prepared to do it, get a price and charge the customer double. There should be a law against that

 

 

The point about regulation is a good one, It should happen and as an MLA member would welcome it, but hand on heart dont think it ever will.

[Danny King]

I have just been upto BQ and bought a big hammer and a crowbar. I'm going to call myself a locksmith

 

We get asked all the time if we are locksmiths but haven't had any training so pass the job to people like Phill. he does a good job which looks good on us

[Bren]

The internet is full of 'how to open locks' stuff. Just have a quick look on youtube.

[Guest orangelock]

How bizarre - you guys don't have licencing like your cousins out here in the colonies. This seems really odd - we (in NewSouthWales) have to be cleared as 'acceptable persons' by the NSW police, do a four year tech college trade course, qualify for our trade certificate ( exams etc), join a tarde organisation (like MLA) then apply for ( and pay many$$$) our Security Industry Licence which must be worn at all times whilst doing lock work.

If Joe Average ( or the shoe repair man for that case) gets cuaght out here with lock picks he is considered to be carrying house breaking implements and faces a period in the clink.

[petercoulson]

too right

 

and welcome

[keithm]

I concur

[gav]

Glad to hear it Orangelock thats the way to do it

[Growster]

This thread has a tiny speck of self-aggrandisement, of a professional ego-trip.

 

I reckon, that about 80% of the jobs a locksmith does in a regular day of residential locksmithing are very, very easy. Lock-changes, adjustments, slip-opens, letterbox-openings, lock-fittings, a bit of timber-work, even fitting an intercom system from scratch is not hard for a reasonably skilled DIY chap - just RTFM (read the f.. manual). Only some openings can be tricky.

 

This ease fades, when you enter into specialist fields. Locksmithing for institutional clients can be challenging, or where there are high health&safety requirements, safe work is hard, and, like car work, needs expensive tools, high end electronic locksmithing needs talent, etc.

 

The call for regulation in a mainly not very hard trade is in my view misguided. Bad locksmithing doesn't cause near as much harm as do bad gas repairs. That's why gas is regulated and locksmithing isn't. After all, you wouldn't regulate and license a decorator, would you?

 

Now to the locksmith-louses, the cowboys: They do bad work because they get given the opportunity to do bad work, because clients call them out:

 

a) some (very few) are very marketing savvy

and this is the main point: They are available, they answer their phones, they can get to the client fast. And if louse 1 can't come out right away, louse 2 will.

 

Do you not often hear from clients, that they phoned this or that long-established firm, and that they could only book a job for next Tuesday, because all engineers are at the Olympic site or at the British Museum doing some important big-shot work?

 

It's a bit like McDonald's: Survey after survey proves, that Burgerking and Wendys make way better burgers. But McDonald's is everywhere, they are available when you're hungry. Burgerking is rare, Wendys isn't even in the UK anymore.

 

To answer the original question: Bob Curry in Northampton runs an excellent 3-4 week class. Not cheap, and he can be a grump, but in my view he churns out some excellent people. He also teaches the commercial aspects of the trade, i.e. how to make a living out of it.

 

To be clear: I am firmly against louses. But the thin number of proper graduates from the MLA exam creates a bottleneck. If we don't have more "good" locksmiths, then some of the work will go to the bad ones.

[rapidlocks]

Bob curry runs his courses from hereford , it used to be ken at justlocks in northampton , but i agree bobs courses are far more thorough than the 2 day wonders and far better than any so called city and guilds course, the guys ive come across from these courses at least know how to fresh fit a lock, a skill lacking in many, as on most courses only basic entry is taught, which is of little use in the real world, as lock outs form less than 10% of the average days workload unless in utility warrants.

 

we surveyed alot of student locksmiths to try and find out what was their incentive to take a course and enter this trade , the most frequent answers were ;

 

1) had a locksmith out to change my upvc lock , he charged me £125 plus vat , it took under 5minutes and i thought thats good money and that easy i could that .

 

2) its easy money , i was charged £100 for a lock thats £25 in B&Q , its money for nothing

 

3) a locksmith charged me £60 for 2 seconds work using a bit of plastic to open my order , it was so easy i thought i can do that.

 

4) you can be qualified in a few days , cant do that in other trades with such earning potential

 

5) i just wanted an easy part time job to top up my wages and you can earn a few hundred a week easily after 2 days training.

 

we only had one person do this as always interested in locks and wanted a career , all believed it was quick easy money.

 

Fact , there are as many part time locksmiths as full time now, and as not reliant on the money , undercut most .

 

The frightening thing is , that very few have even what was once considered basic skills , have no basic lock id , no idea of how the lock is constructed or what makes it tick, unaware of the insurance guidelines , fire regs and building regs , in short they lack the foundations to be a locksmith .

 

We blame the government for lack of regulation , we blame the trainers , we blame the 2 day wonders and yes all contribute to the problem , but to date no locksmith has ever accepted any blame for this ? but many locksmiths are also to blame , ie ,

 

1) every time a lock is slipped in front of a customer and made to look so simple and so easy for anyone to do.

2) every time a sterling euro is fitted and sold for £50 plus labour , when same lock on sale in the hardware shop for under a fiver.

3) every time over £100 is charged for a simple euro change

4) when on a lockout , a cylinder is just snapped and changed

 

etc etc etc , if made to look too simple , then many will see it as not value for money , no real skill involved and easy money for nothing , some will think , il have a go at that.

 

ie , when changing a euro , il always lube the gearbox, check the toe and heel alignment of the door , and i use a cleaner to clean door inside and out , all not that hard to do, takes very little time and gives the customer that value , after all we charge for an hours labour , give them some of that hour.

Never slip a yale infront of the customer unless a true urgent entry , it does you and the trade no favours, and does you no long term good, obviously weather and different situations exist where a quick entry is needed , so pick instead of slip if customer is watching.

 

Show why using a proper locksmith is far better long term , if opening or changing a lock, give a quick service to the rest of the locks, toe and heel the door if needed , check the rest and offer accurate advice on insurer requirements or any problems , if upvc door grubby , why not use a rag and a good upvc cleaner to give it a clean, ask if any keys are need cutting whilst you are there and give them a keen price for keys whilst there.

in short offer an old fashioned service and leave that customer singing your praises , the word of mouth works wonders and something the cowboys can never match, give the job you have done some real value , for little more than a little time and a little knowledge.

 

after all its this that stands a locksmith and businessman apart from a quick buck merchant, and the long term trusted local business apart from the here today gone next year brigade.

[keithm]

Excellent post Rapid =D>