kalaidascope Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 Is it possible to get a converter to change from three phase to single phase? I have a power unit and i am moving into a market unit with domestic supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldEngraver Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 can you just clarify you have a retail unit with single phase and wish to power a machine with 3 phase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 yes it is possible to convert 1ph to 3ph but for a power unit you must get a large capacity rotary convertor which needs a 40amp 1phase supply. if you get a cheaper static convertor you run the risk of damaging the motors on this machine. you will need a minimum of a 10hp one. the problem you will have with a static will be the compressor may not work properly and the other motors will react badly to the phase imbalance and may trip the switches and burn out and you must not use the foot pedals but only the motor switches to turn it on and off. try motorun on 0208977 0242 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaidascope Posted August 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 Sorry lads maybe I put it the wrong way round, I`m presently using three phase in my shop and want to convert to single phase in the new unit if it possible. As I`m electronicaly thick any advice would be welcome. cheers ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobblers Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 whereabouts is your shop ken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaidascope Posted August 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 Manchester just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 Would it be better to part exchange your existing machinery for single phase machines, of sell yours to put towards a recon single phase? (just a thought as I dont like converters to run something on the size of a Power Unit.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 Hugh, thats why we say only a 10hp rotary for power units. we have had some out now for 10years with no problem. it is becoming more common now because of the charges electric companies make to install 3phase when you do not already have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 I'll take your word for it Peter as the only experience I have is of the converters of old, they were tripping out every 5 minutes or if you put a bit of extra pressure on the wide band. The most frustrating time I ever had in 45 years cobbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 yes, thats the static ones where you have to guess at the power output depending on how many motors are running. rotaries do away with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Kalaidascope. Do you really need a Power Unit? Running a Rotary converter as Peter said is possible, but why run one if you don't have to? It's another motor thats merely producing electricity at a cost. It's also a potential weakpoint, albeit rare if set up properly and can be noisy. I would consider the possible alternatives and look at single phase. If you need any help with this please call us. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Given that a large converter will be 1500 + how much would it cost to change to either 3 phase supply, or a single phase machine? Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 in a market 3 ph should be available but they may charge a fortune to run it to a unit. some electric companies are now quoting 3000 just to run into a shop. some years ago t(before privatisation) there was a standard charge to run to a set distance. i think it was something like 500 to go up to 10metres even if digging up paths! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k4mrc Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 i always thought 3 phase to be more cost effective? most people would rather keep 3 phase - its an awful lot cheaper. would it be better to pay more to get 3 pse to your new unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaidascope Posted August 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Thanks for the feedback lads, I think I`m leaning towards a single phase machine now. Good of you all to take the time to answer. Cheers Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfman Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 sorry gents but i some of your answers are missleadingand i am surprised that kieth and peter could not give more informed info ie the difference in cost in running three phase or single is not worth worrying about , as for the difference in power it can be compensated for the main difference between 3 and 1 phase is this becouse we use ac power in the uk it means our power comes thru in pulses with gaps between each pulse in 1 phase 230 volts whereas 3 phase fill these gaps with an extra 2 live feedsthus giving more of a direct current . as for being able to stop the wheel by applying pressure the all you need to do is fit a bigger motor as i had kieth do on 2 cougers that we purchased from him a few years back and if you happen to stop the wheels with the bigger motors then i would say you are applying to much pressure becouse your bands need changing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 sorry elfman but the question of difference in power hasnt come up as far as i can see. You are correct, the saving to be made by having 3 ph electric is not that great as to be a big consideration and there should be no difference in power, a 1.1kw motor is just that whether 1ph or 3ph and bands should not be stopped when applying pressure as you also say. The question was whether 3ph could be produced from 1ph which it can. I would be concerned that someone would buy a 1ph machine because of having a'domestic' supply, ideally you need a seperate 30amp supply for a 1ph finisher anyway so this may be an expensive route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldEngraver Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 a 1.1kw motor is just that whether 1ph or 3ph and bands should not be stopped when applying pressure as you also say. quite true but not forgetting a 1.1kw 3 phase motor will tend to be physically smaller and have a higher starting torque than a 1.1kw 1 phase. Due to the very nature of 3 ph being a smoother supply, the smoother running characteristics of 3 ph motors leading to less vibration and therefore longer life expectancy. Also do not forget that UK single phase supply is 230VAC whereas 3 phase is 415VAC so control voltage considerations apply to control cabinets as well as motor ratings etc. Better go and buy a single phase finisher me thinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 we have them, ready and waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kam Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 so your all saying 3ph and 1ph to run is no difference in cost? electricity bills i am on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 They are saying that the difference is not so great as to buy the 3ph for its lower running cost I do believe. I also believe that no matter what rating the motor is you wont get vibrations that will be noticed on working the machine, the vibrations you will be feeling will be coming from elsewhere not the actual motor when new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 3 ph will be cheaper but not so great as to be a big consideration, more of a side effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 3 ph will be cheaper but not so great as to be a big consideration, more of a side effect Are the side effects listed like the ones on my tablets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 arent they frightening, if you read medicines and what they could do you wouldnt bother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Around 70% of the machines that we manufacture are single phase. If you do have the misfortune of having to move premisis unexpectedly at least you know your finisher will not need replacing! I would agree that three phase is smoother, quieter, but running these machines on converters seems uneccassary when single phase is readily available Modern single phase motors are better than they used to be, certainly more reliable, and providing you change the scouring band regularly you should have no issues. We also have a solution for those that require more piece of mind on the scouring motor, we fit a three phase motor with some clever electronics Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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