Dean Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I would back my argument up with research: Have a look at 1:3 here , http://www.cv.titech.ac.jp/~miki-lab/en ... report.pdf if you want a 3rd party opinion "The laboratory demonstrated that the fracture strength of brittle materials is extraordinarily sensitive to flaws introduced at their surface during manufacture and subsequent usage." perhaps that is piffle also ???? I have just read the pdf document that you supplied. The only thing that is suggested in the 'report' is that glass is weakened when flaws are introduced to it's surface. (Pretty sure I could have told you that in Primary School, Pal ) I find it startling that it takes a load of eggheads and 12 pages of equations to realise this. The report is written in highfalutin language and peppered with complex equations that you were hoping would bamboozle us and draw the thread to a premature conclusion. Nicht. Find me a Case Study or a report on Champagne Bottles BREAKING and we'll talk. Over to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 There may well be issues with introducing weak points into glass through engraving & other similar actions. However, since the glass in question is just a champagne bottle, I'm happy to go ahead with the engraving - and offer it as a service to my customers. If it was a critical component in an important piece of kit - aircraft window, glass floor in high rise building etc, I may take a different opinion. However, let's try & keep some perspective on what we're doing here. It's just a bottle. What's the worst that could happen - and more to the point the likelihood of anything actually going wrong? Bring on the extra business... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 glass floor in high rise building etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satiusreesadimus Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 This really is my last comment on the subject... Whilst I think the more intelligent have grasped my argument and just as a reminder my contribution started by saying technically you should not engrave champagne bottles. The reasons have been explained,, it is a pressure vessel and as Dean so rightly deduces glass is weakened when you introduce flaws into its surface. Nobody is saying the bottle will explode just because you engrave it but most would agree by weakening it you create a situation where it could fail. I think you will find champagne producers used to loose 80 percent of botles through breakages before they redesigned them but that is going off at a tangent. Again whether you wish to engrave it or not is completely your decision, it might never fail,, it might just fail, is it more likely to fail because it has been weekened ?? we will not know until it happens.. All we can be certain of though is that if a bottle engraved by anyone who has contributed to this thread fails and injures someone then then they are going to have a pretty hard time defending their action in court. StevenB wrote: There may well be issues with introducing weak points into glass through engraving & other similar actions. However, since the glass in question is just a champagne bottle, I'm happy to go ahead with the engraving - and offer it as a service to my customers. If it was a critical component in an important piece of kit - aircraft window, glass floor in high rise building etc, I may take a different opinion. However, let's try & keep some perspective on what we're doing here. It's just a bottle. What's the worst that could happen - and more to the point the likelihood of anything actually going wrong? Bring on the extra business... Lets try and keep some perspective on what we are doing here ---It is not just a bottle we are taking a pressurised bottle from a customer weakening it ( if you acknowledge the argument) and giving it back to the customer . I think that is not responsible and we would not do that. Bring on the extra business ----- I did suggest earlier that profit was probably getting in the way of resposibility.. It is probably coincidence that when you put some of the contributors companies in here ( http://companycheck.co.uk/ )the profits do look like they need all the help they can get. And now to Dean, Dean wrote: helicopterrob wrote: I would back my argument up with research: Have a look at 1:3 here , http://www.cv.titech.ac.jp/~miki-lab/en ... report.pdf if you want a 3rd party opinion "The laboratory demonstrated that the fracture strength of brittle materials is extraordinarily sensitive to flaws introduced at their surface during manufacture and subsequent usage." perhaps that is piffle also ???? I have just read the pdf document that you supplied. The only thing that is suggested in the 'report' is that glass is weakened when flaws are introduced to it's surface. (Pretty sure I could have told you that in Primary School, Pal ) I find it startling that it takes a load of eggheads and 12 pages of equations to realise this. The report is written in highfalutin language and peppered with complex equations that you were hoping would bamboozle us and draw the thread to a premature conclusion. Nicht. Find me a Case Study or a report on Champagne Bottles BREAKING and we'll talk. Over to you. That glass is weakend when flaws are introduced is part of my argument yes, but you missed an important point in translation what they concluded was "fracture strength of brittle materials is extraordinarily sensitive to flaws Does your engraving not therefore weaken the surface?. The document is not written to be arrogant or egotistical it is simply a published reserach document that shows the test procedure and how the conclusion is arrived at - I am guessing but science probably wasnt too hot at that primary school. Find me a Case Study or a report on Champagne Bottles BREAKING and we'll talk With all due respect do you really think we would have anything in common to talk about? I have however backed up my argument with a published and accepted piece of scientific literature people can read it and decide if it is worth taking note of.. Your assertion seems to be subjective speculative assumption based on ignorance. I am however always open to enlightenment so why dont you find a similar published and accepted article that negates in your own words that glass is weakened when flaws are introduced. If you can not do that then there is no room for maneuver beacause that is what I am saying.“I have not yet begun to fight!†– John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I did reply to the above but I think the reply is better for the trade section and not public consumption so I have removed it myself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm not inclined to actually lock this topic, but I think it's fair to say we've probably exhausted the debate on this one? Some think it's a good idea, some don't. We've had a good discussion, nobody has quite fallen out over it. Over to Gray for a Monty Python link & we can all move on to the next argument. I mean discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Can't think of a bottle one. Have the cheese one. changed my mind......Nothing like a good glass of Château de Chasselas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarunas Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 U can use paint of any color , to give a colorful touch to engraved letters on bottle . I do use watercolors and then put 1 layer of lacquer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY Posted March 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 glenway page 129......£16.99 retail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Well, I've just engraved my bottle, no problems, no dodgy cracking noises, no reason to do anything other than get the bottle straight in the window & bring me another source of custom. Thanks Andy for suggesting the idea in the first place \:D/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Nice..........Who's Catherine and Richard then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 get the bottle straight in the window & bring me another source of custom. Believe you me it will! Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Nice..........Who's Catherine and Richard then? They're my imaginary friends... I was going to do as Lee did & use my own details, but decided to make it more anonymous. The lack of date is also a deliberate decision, to stop it looking out of date in a few years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Let's see the vid then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 TBH it's a pretty dull 13 minutes of engraving... I'll have a proper look at it tonight & see if it's worth uploading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 its always worth uploading, we all like to see what others are up to & my approach is always to see if there's anything in it worth learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 So here's the first 30 seconds or so. After this there was just another 13 minutes of the same. I got bored watching the whole thing in fast forward You can see that I've taped a plastic bag to the bottle to protect the labels & stop them getting damaged by the engravers lubricant. The bottle is upside down in the machine & text reversed on screen. Let me know if you pick up anything else, Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 well i'll never get that 30 secs back carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 At least I warned you first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 the plastic bag will do for me, a valuable 30 seconds as I see it, I marked my label with "engravers lubricant" on my sample although it dried out. I've now been warning customers, & have been very cautious your solution works well & I will employ this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Is that dust I can see on your Universal 300? Nice trick with the bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 It's not dust. It's a protective coating that the machine organically creates for itself, and carefully spreads over the area surrounding the machine. p.s. Remember I've seen pictures of your finisher, so you're not best placed to criticise :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 My finisher has got a protective coating then. Did Frank sing My Way for the full 13 minutes on a loop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Did Frank sing My Way for the full 13 minutes on a loop? I don't know, there was too much noise from the engraving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Cobbler Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 This is the third champagne bottle that I've done using stencils and sandblasting. It takes a little while to mask off and protect the labels, but it's not really a problem. I'd rather do them this way than in the engraving machine. Valerie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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