Lee Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Basic Back lining tutorial This tutorial is following the Shoes that need repairing - request for offers It showed a pair of shoes requiring a worn back lining & subsequent repair, during the topic I showed this image of a complete re-lining of a shoe as show by planet UK900 which brought about this comment No-one, yes no-one, will remove a lining to replace a back quarter damage unless the shoe is completely stripped down to component parts. The lining repair is what every one of you would have done including me, but on a smaller scale. Well this really surprised me! I have for many years performed back lining repairs as described below! Back lining repair. Time taken 33 minutes. Remove inner sock Remove heel block nails with electric pliers (heel block may fall off as in this case at this stage Roll back middling away from work area Remove old lining Use this as a template for replacement, I always leave a bit of extra height & cut little nicks out of the lining to aid re-fitting. I also thin down the edges very slightly for a smoother joint. Bond & stitch one seam. Lay lining into shoe & bond second side. Lift back out of the shoe & stitch the second side. Now bond the lining into the back of the shoe. Stitch around the top, make sure you start your stitching at a point where your eye won’t noticed the join & use the appropriate size thread. Cut the access leather from the top neatly using a sharp knife. Next re-bone the middling & re-attach the heel block with either screws or nails. For what it costs & how long it takes I always replace the sock lining to smarten the appearance of the repair. Finally finish & polish heel block & upper. Lee This post has been promoted to an article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 well thats more like a "proper" back lining. One that will stand the test of time. And one that is worth a bit of credit for a repairer prepared to go that little bit further to be better than most. Well done Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Looks like a good & proper job to me! nice one Lee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Impressive Lee, are you saying that this is what you do with all back linings? Add half an hours cost on top of the price for the through sole and what price would you then come up with? As both leathers on these jobs are the same thickness and both are covering the worn area at the back of the shoe there will be no difference in the time taken to wear through either surface. Yes this way is a better way but is it necessary? If I was putting a lining in my own shoes I would not go to those lenghts and I would bet that 95% of repairers in this country when being asked for a Back Lining would go over the original and not remove the old one by taking out the Heel Seats. If you are talking of how a job should be done to provide maximum wear then what provisions did you make for the burst upper at the top back evident of pictures 7 & 8 from the top. The only thing giving strenght to this after renewing the lining is the lining itself and a few stitches. If the pressure from the wearers foot has caused the substantial upper leather, the canvas lining or the Stiffener and the Top Line Tape along with the lining to burst then a Lining on its own will hardly sufice with reinforcement between the Lining and the Upper. Thjis would have to be of a none stretch material such as fabric Tape. Perhaps you have done this but I cant see it anywhere!!! The bust upper is still visible on the finished job picture No 22 from the very top. Nice looking job though all the same, not many go to those lenghts for a simple patch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Impressive Lee, are you saying that this is what you do with all back linings? Every pair, which is why your comment set the wheels in motion! Its never crosses my mind not to!Add half an hours cost on top of the price for the through sole and what price would you then come up with? the point to this was you said First on the back lining. No-one, yes no-one, will remove a lining to replace a back quarter damage unless the shoe is completely stripped down to component parts. If I was doing a through sole then this job would become far easier to perform as the heel block would have been removed along with the old sole, thus the labour time for completion would be less. Another key aspect to this type of work & the smaller establishments is we are not meeting targets for completion of works. This job could take me all day & I would charge the same, knowing a satisfied customer would help build my own brand recognition. As both leathers on these jobs are the same thickness and both are covering the worn area at the back of the shoe there will be no difference in the time taken to wear through either surface. Not quite technically true that, where the leather is over the old lining it is now twice as thick as where the hole is, this creates a “Rim†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cad Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Lee, You can probably loose 5 mins of the total time for taking all the photos..... Hugh Isn't it a matter of personal methods and not always about hard cash and profits..... If Lee does this all the time then all the better for his customers. The question I would have is, what would the difference in time equate to in price? .......If Lee is proficient with this method the time for the repair may not be much different... ? cad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 The bust upper is still visible on the finished job picture No 22 from the very top. This is simply where the two leathers are rolled over the lip together. the burst was stitched! Honestly Lee xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Very nice job Lee, as usual,and I have to admit I had never thought of going this far just for a backlining only because, and here's a saying I know UK hates, I was never taught that way The only problem I can see with doing a backlining this way is the heel block removal.I know from experience not all heel blocks come of that easy.Sometimes you get those blocks that have a leather lift under the top piece but the rest of the block is made from some sort of compressed card or hardboard that just breaks up when you try and remove it.A replacement heel block thats not going to be paid for by the customer on a job that might take a bit longerb than allowed for and the job hardly seems worth it. I know this wouldn't happen every time, only once in a while MAYBE but just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Now this is fascinating, the fact that Hugh, a very credable member of the forum, Believes NOBODY performs this job in this way. I'm not having a go at hugh here, but I am amazed that he doesn't believe any of us do the job in this way. It just goes to show, there are some really unique repairers out there. And alot of "sort cut" charlies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 The only problem I can see with doing a backlining this way is the heel block removal.I know from experience not all heel blocks come of that easy.Sometimes you get those blocks that have a leather lift under the top piece but the rest of the block is made from some sort of compressed card or hardboard that just breaks up when you try and remove it. There is no problem with this Michael, you are NOT trying to remove the heel block, this is a byproduct of the job; but only sometimes! By using your electric pliers to heat up the heel block nails it actually burns the hole holding them, this loosens the grip on them & they can then be prized out using your screw driver & pinchers (as shown) You are not trying to remove the heel block, simply the nails running through the middling that you need to lift. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Now this is fascinating, the fact that Hugh, a very credable member of the forum, Believes NOBODY performs this job in this way. I'm not having a go at hugh here, but I am amazed that he doesn't believe any of us do the job in this way. It just goes to show, there are some really unique repairers out there. And alot of "sort cut" charlies Perhaps I should have said 95% of repairers, there will always be someone with enough expertise that is not very busy that will entertain doing it this way. The rest of the 95% have to balance output against time available. My estimate for the cost of that job on top of what has already been paid and taking Lees time of 30 minutes would be an extra £20 if it had been possible to estimate this tmie scale in the first instance. Where you take a job in and then discover that you want to do the job a bit better than the norm then that is fine and is how you build skills and confidence. I would like to see the results of a survey carried out by the Cutting Edge Mag on how many would take the shoe apart to put a simple Back Lining in. I'm not detracting form what is an excellent job of replacing the lining, just that it is not the norm to do it this way. Maybe in Lees case it is and maybe for a few others that would add up to the minority. As for the burst upper Lee you aint convinced me, ther is a definate split on pic 22 after the job was finished, it is not an unstitched seam on the half moon section of the upper but a split on the edge of it. I do realise that puttting a lining in your own shoes to show what you would have done in the circumstances is not going to be perfection, but there is a moral to the story provided by my ancestor Hugh Mungus as told to him by the dwellers in the Palace at that time Sir Kull & Lady Nuff, "People in Glass houses should not stow thrones" Still a nice job though Lee after all, but would cad paid all that extra dosh for something that may not come to light and something he would not have been made aware of. There is another thought to bear, The original Lining did not fair too well, how long did this last and how long will the replacement lining last.... only time and cad will tell I think that there is some external force that has accounted for the premature wear here, providing of course that the lining was made of Leather (my doubts on this were stated in a very early post when cad was asking for a price). Perhaps friction has been an overiding factor in the wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 would cad paid all that extra dosh for something that may not come to light and something he would not have been made aware of. Once I quote a price thats it! I don't then turn around and inflate it for any reason, as for would cad have paid all that dosh for my repair, clearly not He used Timpson & thats fine by me. All's fair in love & war. I won't be losing any sleep over it & am only two pleased cad joined the forum as he's thrown up one of the most interesting topics so far. This topic was never about cad's repairs anyway it was about your quote "No-one, yes no-one" I simply thought I never don't! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Yeh but... the whole topic was to show the difference between your method and the one used for cads reapair so it can be classed as half and half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Yeh but... the whole topic was to show the difference between your method and the one used for cads reapair so it can be classed as half and half. Hugh...... So you've collected your shoes from the repairers, and on looking, the old lining has been removed and new lining in place like lees' tutorial. Or would you have been happier with the lining stuck over the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windycity Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 thanks lee in 30 years i have never seen a back lining replaced like that. I do quite a few jobs of this type. i had 3 pairs in this morning, it just goes to show you do learn some thing new every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 thanks leein 30 years i have never seen a back lining replaced like that. I do quite a few jobs of this type. i had 3 pairs in this morning, it just goes to show you do learn some thing new every day. Well said farty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x minit uk Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 First of all, what a great job Lee, you really do take a pride in your work. 2nd of all, I also have never seen this job done in this way in almost 30 years of repairing, but next one I do, if I have time will try that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto Key Wizard Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I've always used the method Lee has demonstrated, (I thought it was the norm) but only ever lift the heel-seat & in-board on long sole jobs, unless the punter is paying me £25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 There is no problem with this Michael, you are NOT trying to remove the heel block, this is a byproduct of the job; but only sometimes!By using your electric pliers to heat up the heel block nails it actually burns the hole holding them, this loosens the grip on them & they can then be prized out using your screw driver & pinchers (as shown) You are not trying to remove the heel block, simply the nails running through the middling that you need to lift. Lee Sorry Lee, My misunderstanding Bit hungover today,wasn't with it.Now I've got home,Had some dinner and a shower I understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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