Through Soles

[alxfer]

While I'm on the forum, how about this one?

I was taught to skive and graft a through sole under the heel, leaving that semi circle of original leather at the back, but I have just had a through sole in which had had the whole lot replaced as one. I tried this method and it seemed to work OK. Mind you it was an unstitched sole.

Thoughts good people?

[Auto Key Wizard]

but I have just had a through sole in which had had the whole lot replaced as one. I tried this method and it seemed to work OK. Mind you it was an unstitched sole.

Thoughts good people?

Well done you've repaired the footwear correctly & I hope you charged accordingly £50 minimum

[x minit uk]

While I'm on the forum, how about this one?

I was taught to skive and graft a through sole under the heel, leaving that semi circle of original leather at the back, but I have just had a through sole in which had had the whole lot replaced as one. I tried this method and it seemed to work OK. Mind you it was an unstitched sole.

Thoughts good people?

 

I was also shown that way but now I replace the whole sole, the other way is called a 3/4 sole I think.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Taking the full sole off results in the seat being disturbed (if the whole lot is riveted).

This makes it much more difficult to get the original shape and stiffness. (I am quoting on a Goodyear Welted shoe).

Much more difficult also to re-gain the pitch and balance as most press's are flat so that the sole when attatched needs a wedged heel block to get the balance. The block should sit level on the counter and the sole for most of its area be also level on the counter.

If you go for the full long sole try to get the sole to follow the shape of the shoe and not get the shoe to be forced by the press to the shape of the sole which will be also flat. (does that make sense?).

 

So many times I see long soles that have a heel angled so that the customers foot is sliding to the front of the shoe. The heel must sit flat on the flat heel base.

 

I would trust that most of you on this forum already do this and retain the original shape.

 

If you have to remove the back section be carefull not to disturb the lasting tacks securing the upper to the insole.

 

Another point to take into consideration is costs, 3/4 are cheaper than full soles. If you cut your own then there is less wastage.

If I am doing a full sole I tend to scour the bck bit off to limit the damage.

Personal choice though. Full sole can be faster to complete.

[kobblers]

i woulda thought getting the pitch right so the heel sits flat was something everybody should know

it was the first thing i was taught when scouring the block and attaching toppieces.

[kobblers]

there ya go, i learned summat today, i was taught that it was the pitch, not that the terminology matters. it's the practical application of the word for me!

rick.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

I had better look this up in my University of Cobbledeegook manuals, dont want to be giving out wrong info here and make myself look a *****.

 

Answer after Easter, probably next Thursday.

[ironplanet uk900]

Taking the full sole off results in the seat being disturbed (if the whole lot is riveted).

This makes it much more difficult to get the original shape and stiffness. (I am quoting on a Goodyear Welted shoe).

Much more difficult also to re-gain the pitch and balance as most press's are flat so that the sole when attatched needs a wedged heel block to get the balance. The block should sit level on the counter and the sole for most of its area be also level on the counter.

If you go for the full long sole try to get the sole to follow the shape of the shoe and not get the shoe to be forced by the press to the shape of the sole which will be also flat. (does that make sense?).

 

So many times I see long soles that have a heel angled so that the customers foot is sliding to the front of the shoe. The heel must sit flat on the flat heel base.

 

I would trust that most of you on this forum already do this and retain the original shape.

 

If you have to remove the back section be carefull not to disturb the lasting tacks securing the upper to the insole.

 

Another point to take into consideration is costs, 3/4 are cheaper than full soles. If you cut your own then there is less wastage.

If I am doing a full sole I tend to scour the bck bit off to limit the damage.

Personal choice though. Full sole can be faster to complete.

 

That was very well put Hugh. So many people angle the heel block, as you say this just makes your foot slide to the toe of the shoe. I never use my press on leather through soles.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

I use a Press but is is a Long Sole Press with an Air Bed for taking manudfacturing lasts.

You must have been doing a lot of reading uk900 over these past few days

[ironplanet uk900]

Yes I have. I'm begining to get a picture of who's who. It's a great forum, and you yourself make a fantastic contribution.

[Guest brentlee]

I am afraid i am from the full soles or no soles brigade. We don't offer customers a 3/4 or front sole replacement in 99% of cases. Shoes were made with full soles and so i usually replace with such. But i must say i agree with hugh. A lot of Aussie repairers seem to have a facscination for turning a shoe with a lovely shape into something that resembles a deck shoe with a flat sole, no arch and a wedge for a heel. And then wonder why the customers complain that their shoes look funny or feel weird.

In the area of the seat i usually find that most shoes aren't glued well to the heel seat, and in most cases i sand the tops of the nails or tacks holding the sole to the seat then carefully peel the sole forward leaving the seat in place and intact. When the new sole goes on i retack or nail as it was when i found it, albeit in a slightly different pattern, then put the heel block on and nail from inside.

i find most of the shape or lack of comes from how the guys lay the leather sole onto the upper and how they press it in the press. I dont use a sole press of any form and personally dont see a need for one, but I have no hassle with guys using them if the can do so properly.

I find i can do a full thru sole on a Church or RM Williams or Loake etc stitched and finished incl removing old stitching in about 35-45 mins barring interuptions (customers!!) but i find it takes me half as long again to do a 3/4 sole by the time i do the graft. And the job always looks better with a nice full sole.

Anyway enough from me. Its just my opinion and you dont have to agree with it but thanks for reading my 2cents worth

 

Cheers

brett

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Interesting that post brentlee,

I am interested on health & safety grounds. That is the second time in the same week that someone has said that they do not use a Press.

This leads me to conclude that all your work is hand hammered. which in turn gives rise to,

1. Arthritus of the joints in the arm being used for hammering.

2. Arthritus of the shoulder carrying the same arm.

3. Arthrirus of the neck joints.

4. Tennis elbow.

If I could pass on one tip only it would be to use a press where possible and practicle to lessen the damage that has already occurred in those joints.

 

PS Are RM williams boots oiled or waxed. The reason I ask is that everyone seems to polish them and I think they should be oiled. An aussies opinion on an Aussie product would be fitting.

[Guest brentlee]

Most dress RM's need only a good leather conditioner and a polish. There are some oil kip style boots which need oil and some suedes which need a wash, but the majority are conditioner and polish. I find the old timers who oil their boots usually have beautiful supple leather but the welt tape is usually stuffed when you go to resole them. it doesnt seem to like the saddle oils much at all. I just use a good leather conditioner to keep the leather nourished and a polish over the top to make them look pretty.

 

So far i dont have any signs of arthritus in the joints or neck, but my last is a bench one set at around top of stomach level, not one of those floor stands. I used to get a bit sore if i did a heap of shoes in a day on the floor last as it was too low, but have had not one problem since i went to a bench last and lifted my finishing machine about 8 inches. As far as i was aware, and i may be wrong, but most of the glues we use dont need excessive pressure to bond. If the shoe is prepped properly and the sole layed on properly, then firm pressure with hands or hammer handle is usually sufficient. With leather boot soles i will usually lightly hammer whole sole as the are usually a bit stiffer and need a little help to shape on occasion. And as i see very few jobs back because they have come apart i dont see a need to press the stuffing out of a shoe with a press.

 

cheers

brett

[skippy]

Is that a fact about the arthritis as both myself and my father have always hammered or hand pressed everything even when there is a press available and wherever possible we hand nail heels instead of stapling or bradnailing. My dads a landscape gardener now and has never had any problems and neither of us have known anyone in the trade to develop this type of condition. Also with work i have seen done that has been pressed and when I have occasionally tried it I have found that rubber soles tend to move and by this loosen the bond at the graft, and in ladies shoes the shank shows its shape through the bottom of the shoe more prominently. Oh and a point of note I do occasionally do a 3/4 sole but only decide to at the last moment if i encounter the seat being fairly loose from the upper ( in many cases held on by three tiny staples ) then I will simply cut it off instead of forcing it away and causing damage angle it off and do a 3/4 sole and ive never had a customer tell the difference. And also you know the original heel block will fit perfectly.

[Jay]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Biff]

I think shoe repairing can cause arthritis as my Dad was a shoe repairer for years and has arthritis pretty bad in his shoulders. I know he used a press but I don't know if he always used it.

[ironplanet uk900]

Can't see a connection myself.... My moms got arthritis. but she never mended any shoes. None smokers get lung cancer..etc

 

Load of twoddle if you ask me

 

If shoe repairs gives you arthritis in the shoulders.......

 

then a lot of you would have it in your wrists

[keithm]

I wouldn't be so quick to discount arthritis to be unrelated to shoe repairing. Having spent 25 years repairing myself I can certainly count myself one who suffers with their back and wrists!

 

May not be arthritis yet, but age will tell !

 

Operators should all be aware that working the right way at the right height could save many from problems later in life.

 

Keith

[ironplanet uk900]

Keith, the arthritis in your wrist may have been caursed by something else

[Lee]

I think we might be back to Rachel again! poor old keith! (Image Gallery if you don't know who Rachel is)

 

Lee

[ironplanet uk900]

eeeer what you on about.....

[Lee]

Have a look at Keiths "Rachel" in the image gallery (added yesturday) I suspect shes the real reason why Keiths wrists and back aches!

 

Lee

[ironplanet uk900]

"O" I see...

[keithm]

The only thing 'Rachel' gives me is an empty wallet. And UK900, that just gives me armpump, not arfur-itis!!!

 

 

Keith

[ironplanet uk900]

Bet you've got arms like popeye then