liamallen Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hi guys. I'm totally new to the engraving game and have decided to learn nonetheless. I'd like to end up doing my local market, engraving gifts and novelty items, hip flasks, key rings, zippo style lighters, mainly flat stuff really, but possibly pens, trophies etc that would obviously all be curved at differing angles. I'm undecided as to go for a decent 2nd hand pantograph or a cheap refurbished computerised one. My budget for the engraver is £1250 max. Any ideas, advice or suggestions would be welcome. Cheers, Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Don't waste your time with a panto, keep saving until you can afford something like the U-Marq Gem, if you look around you can occasionally find them second hand. Not usually for your sort of budget though. Remember, you generally get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liamallen Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Cheers Steven. Don't suppose you know of anywhere that rents computerised engravers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobblers Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't agree. We've been using a pantograph for years and it was a great investment. Unless you're really busy and have loads of well priced work coming in from the off then the computerised ones will take longer to make money back. The low cost of pantographs helps them to turn over a profit in the short term. They may not be able to offer all of the bells and whistles that the modern, computerised ones do but they are still an amazing piece of engraving equipment if used right and with a bit of ingenuity. I really enjoy the tactile side of using a pantograph too Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liamallen Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Thanks for your input too Rick. I haven't got work lined up, was more heading towards learning the basics at home, then taking to the local markets to do the lighters, pet tags, key rings, hip flasks etc. In your opinion, with the extra time a pantograph takes, is there still profit to be made using one in this way? Incidently, how did you start off getting back your initial investment in one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't agree. We've been using a pantograph for years and it was a great investment. Unless you're really busy and have loads of well priced work coming in from the off then the computerised ones will take longer to make money back. The low cost of pantographs helps them to turn over a profit in the short term. They may not be able to offer all of the bells and whistles that the modern, computerised ones do but they are still an amazing piece of engraving equipment if used right and with a bit of ingenuity. I really enjoy the tactile side of using a pantograph too Rick. Welcome liamallen I would not knock a panto either. It's a good place to learn. Having said that you will soon be itching to get into computerised stuff. Take a look around the site, any questions just ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobblers Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 There is good profit to be made from them if you know what you're doing It''s each to their own and we all have different opinions and ways in which we do things. I just believe that pantographs shouldn't be knocked and derided the way they are. They are a good investment, if they weren't then people wouldn't've been buying them in their thousands before the computers came along. In reply to your question about extra time I reckon I can turn a well engraved pendant out in the same time as a computer as I can set up very quickly. Practice makes perfect. The computers have their real value in labour intensive work; signs, tankards, glass. Computers are also ideal if you want to create logos and images as well as have more choice with fonts and layouts. If you're after doing market stuff; pendants, bracelets, lighters, pens etc then a pantograph should meet your needs. A pantograph is generally more portable than a computer plus has the advantage of not necessarily needing power. As has been said too, pantos are a great learning tool. In twenty years they'll be moaning about how many of the old fashioned engravers have gone and how the new generation don't know the skill of manual engraving. Bit like they do with old shoe repairers lol. Hope this helps. Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenB Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I just believe that pantographs shouldn't be knocked and derided the way they are. They are a good investment, if they weren't then people wouldn't've been buying them in their thousands before the computers came along.Rick. I agree, and wouldn't get rid of my pantograph (despite having 3 computer engravers too) as for some jobs it's just the best machine for me to use. However, IMO, for someone just starting out in engraving, a computer machine will be easier to learn & enable the user to offer a much more complete service, thereby allowing greater earning potential. Sure, you need power, but a small machine such as the one I mentioned along with a laptop is just as portable as any small panto. Plus with a computer machine you can't ever lose any odd bits out of the set of brass copy - or even drop the box & have to sort it all out. Hands up anybody that's ever done that... Sorry if we're confusing you with our differing opinions Liam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 investment, invest in an is200tx & you'll never need a pantograph, I sold mine a week after getting the tx, never once thought "I wish I had that pantograph for this job" In this day & age, people are computer savvy they know what font they want & what height they want it. Pantographs are less useful than a computer engraver. £1250 ain't enough to go into engraving, keep saving or your spend 1250 & regret every penny as your saving for what you should have brought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrkeys Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 My advice would be to buy a second hand pantograph and see if the business is there in the market you wish to try. No point in spending £2k to 5k or even more on a computer engraver if the market stall you are looking at doesnt have enough custom. you can pick loads up for way way cheaper than £1200. http://www.ronamachines.co.uk/ Ring the guy up from the above website and tell him your requirements, he has about 50 pantographs all over his industrial unit just gathering dust. I have seen them ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liamallen Posted January 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Ok guys, thank you all for all your advice. Having thought about it I decided to go for a 2nd hand panto. Picked it up today. A Graqvograph IM2..the rotary one. Haven't had a chance to use it yet, but will be messing around on it next week, so will let you know how I got on. The fella that I got it off gave me a good hour and a half showing me how to use it..was a lot to take in, but all seemed pretty straightforward. Machine itself is in vgc and he let me choose a couple of fonts with it plus 3 jigs all in for £650. As it was bought primarily for an investment, I don't think it will take long to earn it's money back. I'm struggling to find a decent priced UK supplier of hip flasks, star lighters, key fobs, dog tags etc at the mo, and looking to source stuff from the far east as a result. If anyone can put me onto someone nearer the Uk then I'd be very grateful. Cheers again fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobblers Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Have fun! Engraving is a really enjoyable part of our trade for me Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 yep one way or the other (panto v's computer) you've paid your money & taken your chances. GOOD LUCK with your new venture. From little acorns. Most of us here have used Pantographs in the past or are still using them so if you need any advice your in the right place. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Try http://www.ukhipflasks.co.uk for the 6oz steel hip flasks - they always sell well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Craig (thekeyvan) for your Star lighters. They look nice when engraved. Engraving comes out a nice copper colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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