ironplanet uk900 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 The shoe repair competition is currently run by JR. I personally think all entrants should be able to use the materials they see fit to win the competition. I would like to see the competition run by this forum. And not a wholesaler who's main interest is thier own PR. We are big enough now, everyone knows us. Together we are a new force in our trade. We could still judge at the Cutting edge show. We as a group could vote who we think should be judges. I think it would be another step forward for this great forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsjo(SCO) Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 someone writing what Ive been thinking for some time bravo carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 it would be good for the forum to run it but we mustnt forget rendenbach took the initiative to revive a competition and may want to run it again. perhaps a joint comp could be run with other suppliers as well to give a choice of materials? it could be like crufts - pedigree fed dogs always seem to win though. and no crying if a non member wins...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Who is going to put up the money that is needed then bright sparks? Who is going to have the postman delivering a hundred pair of shoes to their premises. Who is going to sign for them and check them for who has sent them. Who is going to label them all and remove identifying objects. Who is then going to cross reference ech pair with the number given to the applicant. Who is going to pay the expences of the judges. Who is going to arange for the judges to get a day off to judge them. Who is going to police it. Who is going to adjucicate. Who is going to set the standards and distribute the marks on a marking sheet. Who is going to pay for the premises on loan for the day to do the judging. Who is going to leaise with the winners. Who is going to put up the money for the prizes. Who is going to do the presentations for the press. Who is going to do the PR work. Who is going to carten every pair of shoes back up. Who is going to label them al and see that they go to the right address. Who is going to take them to the post office and get them registered. Who is going to pay for the postage. The list goes on and on and on, but you knew all this didnt you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercoulson Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 perhaps someone who is retired and has nothing to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Who is going to put up the money that is needed then bright sparks?Who is going to have the postman delivering a hundred pair of shoes to their premises. Who is going to sign for them and check them for who has sent them. Who is going to label them all and remove identifying objects. Who is then going to cross reference ech pair with the number given to the applicant. Who is going to pay the expences of the judges. Who is going to arange for the judges to get a day off to judge them. Who is going to police it. Who is going to adjucicate. Who is going to set the standards and distribute the marks on a marking sheet. Who is going to pay for the premises on loan for the day to do the judging. Who is going to leaise with the winners. Who is going to put up the money for the prizes. Who is going to do the presentations for the press. Who is going to do the PR work. Who is going to carten every pair of shoes back up. Who is going to label them al and see that they go to the right address. Who is going to take them to the post office and get them registered. Who is going to pay for the postage.: Bloody hell Hugh, can't you think of any more reasons why the forum ain't qualified. I happen to think that we are more than capable. The list goes on and on and on, but you knew all this didnt you!!! Yes I did, I'm not dumb you know, And I do have idea's and along with other positive members, we could achieve it. It seems you've spent most of your working time with the big boys, And think very little of skills & creative interest of the "cobblers" on here. perhaps someone who is retired and has nothing to do? Yes, but they would need to be on our side. Come on Hugh. Wheres your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain Cheall Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Not wanting to sound negative because I think it would be great for the forum but if the forum runs it. It would only leave multiples employees open to enter as they don't participate in the forum (on the whole I know there is a few of them here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Not wanting to sound negative because I think it would be great for the forum but if the forum runs it. It would only leave multiples employees open to enter as they don't participate in the forum (on the whole I know there is a few of them here). Not sure I understand what your saying there Iain. again please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I did hand Keith a letter at the cutting edge show a couple of years ago, Which went into his suit jacket mentioning the running of a competitions in join association with CuttingEdge but didn’t hear anymore about it. Shortly afterwards JR’s launched their competition & I shelved the idea. At that time we didn’t have a trade competition & it would have been nice because we could have run an “International†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Wasn't that an invoice? I never wear a suit at the Exhibition. You sure it was me? As you are well aware Lee, we are always open to suggestions at Cutting Edge. You now have a seat on the Committee, use it to your advantage The reason we have 2 repairers there is so that you have a voice. This will benefit our trade in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain Cheall Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 My point was if the forum ran the competion then all members of the forum would be exempt from entering it, therefore as the main body of the forum is independants that would leave it open to the multiple employees who don't on the whole participate in the forum. Unless you had Lee, Hugh and one other person judging and the comp only open to forum members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I think there is a fair mix of multiple and independant members, anyway it would highlight the forum to new members, which is part of the idea. As for members not being able to enter, I would only concern the judges. The idea isn't to push out multiples in any way. It would be to enhance the forums profile and to move up another notch in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain Cheall Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 As i said in my original post I think it would be a great idea but feel a duty to you and the forum to play devils advocate a little bit if only to help you do this. Knowing a few repairers some better than most you are like truck drivers and most other profesionals within their own working enviroment..... Old women and slightly paranoid when it comes to a peer judging on your work. If you were a judge and Jay or Dean entered and won fairly and squarely you know for a fact there would be people out there muttering FIX. This is human nature. It would be the same if any forum member won some multiple employees would be saying 'well what do you expect it was their competition' This is why Lee didn't enter last years comp and doesn't want to sponsor or promote this years. I am not saying that you couldn't organise it but just trying to point out some pitfalls to help you avoid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Wasn't that an invoice? I never wear a suit at the Exhibition. You sure it was me? As you are well aware Lee, we are always open to suggestions at Cutting Edge. You now have a seat on the Committee, use it to your advantage The reason we have 2 repairers there is so that you have a voice. This will benefit our trade in the future I wrote a nice letter to CuttingEdge (NOT an invoice) but at that time was still a bit green to everything so didn't like to push the idea. I feel a second copy cat competition isn't in the best interests of the forum. However if a credible alternative is offered then we might be able to work on it. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 As JR have already made a commitment to run a copetition this year, why not work with them? Mind you, you will have to convince them that you're not trying to hijack it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Let us get one thing straight here, I am not on the side of big boys or small boys, only on the side of quality shoe repairs however that is achieved and the means to bring the knowledge from individuals to the majority that may be in need. Let us get another thing straight, you do not need, nor have I said that you do need the Cutting Edge to support your proposed venture. What I do say is that you need the Cutting Edge to be aware of what you are doing and to include the plans in one of their issues. If you do not think you need them just do a few simple calculations. The membership of the forum is 600. The number of members having voted so far is 12. The ratio of members voting is 5%. The ratio of members to Shoe Repair shops is 25%. This makes the ratio of voters 1%-2% of the trade as a whole. The Cutting Edge reaches the whole trade in general.(maybe Tom Tom the Pipers son does not get a copy but most do). Just like the contributions to the Cutting Edge magazine, Just like the contributions to the Repair Competions, Trying to get this trade involved in anything is left down to a core body each year that puts in all the effort and reaps all the critisism, commitee members I include with those who put in the effort for the majority, just like Keith who sits on the commitee for the Exhibition each year and gets hammered by the likes of me when all he is doing is trying to help you the trade. I applaude any effort to develop a competition that could be more fair than the one we have now, but this current one has evolved over many years, starting afresh will only bring upon you all the pitfalls that arose during the early years, what I would encourage is for you to embrace the current one, change the criteria if needs be, change the format, change the venue, change the mentality of those who do not enter but don't think that this forum can do it on its own as you will bring about more negative responces than we already get for competitions. If you do get a 100% go ahead from the trade as a whole for a forum based competition, what makes you think that there will be more entries than there have been over the last 20 years. (I will be interested to hear anyones thoughts on this as countless pleople have tried.). Lee & Keith are experienced commitee members so you may have a good start on a panel for the commitee.(providing of course that they are willing to give up their time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Let us get one thing straight here, I am not on the side of big boys or small boys, only on the side of quality shoe repairs however that is achieved and the means to bring the knowledge from individuals to the majority that may be in need. Let us get another thing straight, you do not need, nor have I said that you do need the Cutting Edge to support your proposed venture. What I do say is that you need the Cutting Edge to be aware of what you are doing and to include the plans in one of their issues. If you do not think you need them just do a few simple calculations. The membership of the forum is 600. The number of members having voted so far is 12. The ratio of members voting is 5%. The ratio of members to Shoe Repair shops is 25%. This makes the ratio of voters 1%-2% of the trade as a whole. The Cutting Edge reaches the whole trade in general.(maybe Tom Tom the Pipers son does not get a copy but most do). Just like the contributions to the Cutting Edge magazine, Just like the contributions to the Repair Competions, Trying to get this trade involved in anything is left down to a core body each year that puts in all the effort and reaps all the critisism, commitee members I include with those who put in the effort for the majority, just like Keith who sits on the commitee for the Exhibition each year and gets hammered by the likes of me when all he is doing is trying to help you the trade. I applaude any effort to develop a competition that could be more fair than the one we have now, but this current one has evolved over many years, starting afresh will only bring upon you all the pitfalls that arose during the early years, what I would encourage is for you to embrace the current one, change the criteria if needs be, change the format, change the venue, change the mentality of those who do not enter but don't think that this forum can do it on its own as you will bring about more negative responces than we already get for competitions. If you do get a 100% go ahead from the trade as a whole for a forum based competition, what makes you think that there will be more entries than there have been over the last 20 years. (I will be interested to hear anyones thoughts on this as countless pleople have tried.). Lee & Keith are experienced commitee members so you may have a good start on a panel for the commitee.(providing of course that they are willing to give up their time). I am going to leave this post to someone else to reply to. Hugh and I are going to have to agree to disagree. I believe our own annual competition would grow over years, and there for help the forum grow. The bigger this forum gets, the more benefits will come our way with the right attitude. Its like dragging an iron ball around here sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Iron Balls Mmmmm, were those not put on chains around peoples ankles to stop them running amok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Iron Balls Mmmmm, were those not put on chains around peoples ankles to stop them running amok I'm not running amok, I have some constructive ideas for the growth and credability of this forum. I know you've been a big time charlie in your past Hugh, but not everything has to be so technical & cryptic. You can't assume everyones a dunce on here. Try giving a bit of credit to those who endeavour to work hard for this place and all who sail in her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Iron Balls Mmmmm, were those not put on chains around peoples ankles to stop them running amok I'm not running amok, I have some constructive ideas for the growth and credability of this forum. Quote from Hugh...constructive ideas are welcome in whatever form in any walk of life and I for one would give every support possible for them.I know you've been a big time charlie in your past Hugh, but not everything has to be so technical & cryptic. You can't assume everyones a dunce on here. Quote from Hugh....Now that is below the belt and a personal attack, I pressume no-one is a dunce, never mind everyone. Try giving a bit of credit to those who endeavour to work hard for this place and all who sail in her. Quote from Hugh... Where things are going in the wrong direction according to my upbringing and beliefs I feel abliged to make the comments that I have been doing, if however you feel that I should encourage topics that could possibly be detrimental to the industyry then sorry but you have the wrong guy. If I as a supplier having sponsored these competitions and was reading these posts as they are written (not possibly intended to appear this way though) I would be having second thoughts of what effect on the trade my presence was having. Having another competition is fine and could be very beneficial so long as it is very different from the existing one and run alonside it, but you are not doing this you are holding a poll which draws into question the suitability of the current and past sponsors. That is how I see it and I may be wrong and if this is the view of only one person then I will refrain from posting on the subject to let the rest of the members plan for the future. #There is no reason why you cant organise a forum only competition that does not clash with anything currently ongoing along the lines that ascap29 has hinted at, something that involves jobs that are different than those previously attempted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 JR’s are a respected company, running a very credible competition & I was only two pleased to help them promote the competition on the site. Our site is (I believe) well respected because of its high moral standing & as such there are no plans at this stage to take anything away from JR’s efforts by running our own independent competition. As JR have already made a commitment to run a competition this year, why not work with them? Mind you, you will have to convince them that you're not trying to hijack it I worked with JR’s to raise awareness of this brand new competition last year. I was happy to do as much or as little as they requested, without making attempts to hijack their immense efforts to bring a credible competition to the UK stage. I think they did an admirable job & worthy winners where chosen. Having won competitions myself I also know you have to live with the constant jibs & criticisms of sceptical & often jealous people. As for James Atkinson I’m sure he is basking in his success this year & will come to realise in the coming years, that despite some of the minor negativities that come with holding such a prestigious title what an asset this win will become to his long term credibility with his customers & employees alike. Once again there are no plans at this stage to take anything away from JR’s efforts by running our own independent competition. Rendenbach, ran a well presented & superb competition for 2007, and although I would love to enter myself one day if they will except my offer I would like to support them in any way the forum can again in 2008. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 If no one wants to do it, or a competition alike, thats fine. I was told months ago that another company was thinking of running a similar competition. Do you think they will worry about treading on anyones toes. We're all business man aren't we !!!!! And at the end of the day we are the guys that buy these companies products, and repair the shoes. So why shouldn't we run the competition!!! No bodies got the god given right to a shoe repair competition. And we are the guys at the end of the day, who keep these suppliers in business. If they want to sulk...let em, they'll get over it. they won't stop supplying us. We're in business, and for the first time ever we have a vioce as independants. It doesn't have to cause ill feeling if it is approached in the correct manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Excellent post Hugh Can't believe I've just said that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Thanks Keith, It is very difficult be the piggy in the middle, I can see the need for change but it has to come about through dialogue that involves all parties getting together around a table. Unfortunately this causes an enormous amount of problems that many could not envisage, some can, but the majority cant. I know the amount of time people like yourselves give to organising events and it is far to easy for someone like myself (as I often do and wont stop ) to list the problems after the event when I had no involvement in the first place. Events like the Exhibitions, like the Shoe Repair week/fortnight/month and the Competitions all take up a tremendous amount of thankless time. Yes they are done for commercial reasons but the biggest benefit is to the trade as a hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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