Why oh why ???

[Guest]

Nearly every week someone brings me in a nice pair of welted leather shoes that have been repaired using a blake stitcher. I don't have a sole stitcher so I get my mate 15 miles away to do mine.... and the customer is always prepared to pay the extra to have them done properly.

['Onest Andy]

Interesting comment Phil.

 

I have to agree I don't particularly like to see a welted shoe blake stitched either. But on the otherhand the person with the blake machine maynot have access to an outsole stitcher or a mate 15 miles down the road. So what does he do? tTurn away the work, or perhaps make the best job he can with the tools and equiptment avaialble to him? I agree it's not a pretty repair but you have to admit it is still generally a successful repair.

 

It would be nice to think we all aspie to making the perfect repair eveytime. But i hold nothing against someone who uses their enginunity to overcome a problem by some other means.

I wonder how others look at this situation ...

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Guest]

... but when the likes of Timpsons have a really good central workshop and quick service then I think there's little excuse for using the wrong machinery. I tell my customers straight that their job will take an extra couple of weeks and a few quid postage, very rarely have I lost a job that way.

 

I occasionally get a job in when a local (large chain of repairer) has used a stitching machine on a flimsy mock welt. The customer had no idea why his sole had pulled away from the upper and the shoes eventually had to be binned !!

[Lee]

The Debate has begun

 

I am inclined to agree with Andy on this one Phil, Although we do see some shoes over and over again the majority are only repaired a couple of times before the owner gets bored with them or the uppers look to shabby for wear.

I am in the fortunate position of having both an outsole stitcher and although only a chain stitch, a Blake stitcher

As with most towns I have other repairers close by, and I would lose repairs if the time scale was increased.

Although I actually don’t offer a while you wait service at all, and even a leather half sole is around ½ a day away from even being started! So tends to take a couple of days from drop of to collection.

And sorry Timpson’s, you are an inspiration to the trade but How many of us would actually send shoes in any form their way, I certainly wouldn’t (fools pride perhaps)

So what do other members think, and Timpson’s I know your out there and I know you watch the forum so tell us your highly regarded views!!! I dare you!!!

 

Lee

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

It had to get personal, throwing wobblies on an open forum is not the way ahead gents and I use the term very loosly after those comments.

To answer on 2 counts in defence of Timpson, who I'm sure are capable of turning out work as bad as the rest, the work turned out by their Central workshops is unbeatable, it is a better standard than the best of competition entries from anywhere!! Secondly, who wins all the top prizes in National competitions, the winning entries are of a standard that 90% of repairers will never be able to emulate even if they had the time, so please do us all a favour and take those sour grapes back to the shop for a refund before this site gets dragged down any further.

[Guest]

Mmmmm.... getting interesting. Personally Lee, and I am not trying to get personal towards you, the cause of most customer disatisfaction is shoddy work and you seem to be saying that is ok. I have just repaired the same pair of shoes for about the 4-5th time and the fella is driving past half a dozen shoe repairers to come to me.

 

And... send work to Timpsons, there is a case for making it compulsory !! I agree with Hugh that there work is of the highest quality, and I have never lost a customer yet through taking an extra week or so, in fact, I can honestly say I have gained more through good quality than I will ever lose through a few days.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Very good that Phil, Quality will prevail, the customer seeking good work will wait and will pay the extra cash as well as travelling many miles in some cases. If you know that your work is amongst the best then that brings a contentment that money cant buy, why worry about the standards of others? surely it works better for the quality repairer that there are those out there who cant, or wont ,or have not got the time to do the job to the best of their ability.

There is going to be the great divide in the very near future where multiples will be sending all but the simplest of jobs to central workshops (tis already happening) the cost of this both in terms of time and monetary is astonomical compared to the % cost of the shoes when new. This leaves the field wide open for the quality repairer able to to the job on the premises. There are very few repairers that I would put into the category of quality repairers though Phil, I've seen the standards!

Now you on the other hand are a Technician in a very different league from the Stick-0n-Sole and Keys brigade.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

The concern started with "Blaked" Soles, but what about the "Super-Glue" pundits. I've seen far more damage from the use of this stuff than from wrongly stitched shoes, that product should be banned under Health & Safety anyway.

Boot Zips stuck in with Super-Glue is not a sight for the feint hearted.

[Lee]

Don’t get me wrong gents I didn’t say our friends from Timpson were in any way shoddy! One of my best friends works for Timpson’s, and I know his standards are extremely high (nearly as high as mine, ha-ha) But my point of view was I couldn’t be bothered with the effort of packing and posting shoes to them, I would be inclined to make do and mend!

I am in the position of having stitcher’s, so like to feel I turn out pretty acceptable work, and I have won awards at national level (Shoe repairer of the year)

Perhaps it should be compulsory for you all to send your shoes to me for stitching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And before anybody else tries to wind Phil and me up anymore, we have an understanding of each other, we are both just trying to move things in the right direction.

And I do believe people are no fools Dissatisfied customers talk with there feet anyway, most cobblers who are struggling are doing so for a reason, perhaps they are the ones with vast stocks of super glue, and Blake thread?

 

It doesn’t get personal here it gets debatable!

 

Lee

[Guest]

I think it's important to differentiate between Timpson's central workshop on one hand against some of the franchised repairers. Another mate on the Wirral is about the best I know in his "T" shop, but there are plenty that I've seen work from in the Lancashire area who do not consider quality the no1 priority.

 

I also think it's impossible to improve the quality if repairers can't accept the need for change. Within the Shoe making industry we are begining to see the need to make training a priority... otherwise there won't be an industry left. The repair industry exists largely because it's quite easy and relatively in-expensive to start up in, it's a reasonable living without huge overheads and we're all daft enough to think we're going to get rich !!! but it does not have an infrastructure that unites repairers for the good of all etc etc.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

I also think it's impossible to improve the quality if repairers can't accept the need for change.

 

A very negative thought Phil, everyone has room for improvement, we have to show them the way forward. Even the most diabolical trades person can have an input without realising it. how many times have you seen a poor repair and thought to yourself "Must make sure my standards dont get that bad".

 

The best are also capable of letting standards slip, unless they have someone to give them the peruvial kick up the backside when the drop in standards is noticable.

[hibsjo(SCO)]

Thats a very good point about uniting shoe repairers.

Like many I had worked for the high street multiples and it was always a case of them and us, no different now that Im on the other side.

But how do you get unity when there is no trust there?

SOMSR tries....

Cutting Edge tries, good quality mag...but lacking in

Then there is the north south divide anything above Northampton forget about us/it/them.

SOMSR/CUTTING EDGE Trade show does not cater for us in the north.

I like this idea of a forum that Lee has come up with make friends change ideas, give and get advice, something SOMSR/CUTTING EDGE should have done, even go as far as saying Timpsons could have done it.

This is sounding like a rant now but hey you's started it.

UNITY

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

hibsjo, that was smack on target, well done.

A few questions for you.

 

1. Do you really believe that we can be united when the independants are so mistrustfull of multiples.

2. I was not the fault of any magazine that we are not united, they just never had the input from the rank & file members, why do you think this forum will be different (Just pray with me that it is cos this may be last chance before shoe repairs as we know it dies a lingering death).

3. I seem to remember Timpson holding seminars at the Exhibitions on how to do Watch Repairs that got most people up and running, problem was most ran so fast cos they thought there was a catch. They did the same with Keys and offered their expertise but very few took them at their word when they said that they were not trying to lead them up the garden path. I find most repairers are cynics, what makes you think there will be a change in the way they think.

4. Ther are very few contributors to the readers letters pages of trade magazines, it has alwys been this way for the past 30 years, before that there was some form of unity. If they cant be bothered to send a letter to a mag what makes you believe that they will register here.

5. Quite a large number of visitors but very little input from them, most articles are from the regular guys who are trying their best to inform the uninformed. My view is as it has always been, most are looking for answers and will quite willingly glean information given freely by the contributors but will not share their own experiences. How do you think we can change this perception of "them & us" I am very interested in your thoughts here!!!

[kobblers]

i think there are some very good points raised here about unity.

i quite agree on the 'them and us' mentality but i'm afraid it's not just confined to multiples versus independents.

i consider myself a friendly and a live and let live sorta chap but whenever i try to be friendly to some of the independents in my town i'm met for the most part with a 'what the hell are you doing coming in here?' sort of attitude, even though i would be the first to offer to exchange/loan stock or help out in another way.

don't get me wrong, i have some great colleagues and friends in the trade, i just want to point out that there is an underlying problem of mistrust at times throughout the whole of our industry.

 

i have to agree with hugh in the fact that i'm guilty of not accepting timpson's offer of training through my own ignorance and mistrust. i think it's probably a natural reaction though, especially if you add into the equation that given the chance any large multiple whether it be timpson or sainsbury's would be more than happy to see you closed down and to take your business.

 

i also have to agree with hugh about the contributions to the trade mags.

i actually did submit a couple of letters myself but after receiving a vicious and sarcastic reply in one of the publications to some hints and tips that i wrote in with. (not, i might add, that i was endorsing or recommending be used, i was just passing on things i'd learnt from other people for some of them. some of the chaps who used some of these methods were up in arms at the nasty reply but never actually bothered to write in and defend me )

 

i also got slated for having the gall to suggest that a more broad based 'shoe repairer of the year' competition be held. i was in no way trying to take away from the excellent craftsmanship that is submitted each year or from the time and effort put into the repairs. i was merely trying to suggest that the criteria includes other aspects of shoe repairing, eg: back linings, patching, zip replacement etc as some folk may not be excellent at soling and heeling but may have a natural ability towards stitching etc.

 

i think my letter about the rapirs comp was taken entirely out of context but after the written assualt i received from that i decided i wouldn't be submitting any more correspondence.

 

i'm with you on the point you make about the cutting edge trade show not catering as much for us northerners hibs. i find it very difficult to make the time to travel so far on most occasions. it'd be nice if they could hold it up this end more often. the same could be said for the trophex exhibition.

 

i don't know who made the point about folk willing to take but not contribute from the forum (my back button has stopped working so i can't go back to the post!) but it may have substance. you only have to look at how many times the posts are viewed compared to how many times replies are posted.

 

i think it'd be nice if the cutting edge magazine got out of the office and conducted more interviews with us independents than they are currently doing, find out what's going on where etc.

 

anyway, as always, a good topic.

toodle pips

rick.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

ascap29,

 

A good read that,

I feel the need (I'm always feeling the need but have to control meself nowadays cos the bromide dont work)to enlighten you on being closed down for the possibility of purchasing your enterprise by the big bods.

They dont go for shops that are on the verge of closing due to poor trade however it is lost. They are after vibrant in your face establishments that have a good clientel and in a good position. They want you to succeed then they will buy you out if the price is right for them. They realise that competition is needed to a certain degree to create the interest in the trade as many folk nowadays are not aware of what can be done with shoes, how many under 30s know that we can do toe-pieces?.

 

Twas I that mentioned about contributors and read with interest on your attempts to get a dialogue going in the Cutting edge mag.

I, and a number of others agree with the concept of a repair competition based on a multitude of jobs including all those you mention. I personally do not think that the outcome will be much different as the winners year by year are capable of standards far superior to the standard obtainable by the majority and it dont just cover soling and heeling.

I would like to see it though as I once saw some zips replaced by a company who shall remain nameless, that were so good I refused to believe that they were replacements.

 

Your contributions to the Cutting Edge were just what we needed, you started a dialogue and it dont matter whether you are right or wrong, it opened up the letters page. It is nice to see someone getting up the noses of others just to cause a reaction, if that is what is needed let's do it. )An old Hugh-Candoit proverb say's "If all sit on the fence, very soon fence disintegrate"

[Lee]

OK, I have already written to cutting edge in preparation for the next edition with a trade tip and an artical about the forum. well lets see how many articles they would really print.

ALL MEMBERS write an article this week! and either post it to

 

Robert Allwood

Cuttingedge

c/o The Thinking Agency

Carlton House

Pickering Street

Leeds

LS12 2QG

 

or email it (nice and easy)

to cuttingedge@thethinkingagency.com

 

And don't forget to mention the forum if at all possible!

I bet if they recieved 5-10 letters they wouldn't all be printed!

 

(also look out for a plug in ten magazine next time round too)

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

What is "ten" magazine Lee? Enlighten us.

[Lee]

Trophy and engraving news!

 

Another one I get through the post, although this is my first attempt at getting publicity through it.

 

Lee

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Right, OK, now tell everyone where to get it from(for those who do not know and would like a copy)(playing devils advocat here)(or is that the egg & brandy drink?)

 

And, I'll bet that no matter how many letters go to Cutting edge mag they will get printed, so long as they are different and relevant, not just an ad for the forum. They have been trying to get everyone to do just that for years but no-one can be bothered to pick up a pen or send an e-mail. They will moan and groan in private but ask them to put it in writing and all of a sudden the wrath of god strikes them dumb and their hands develop "white finger" syndrome, Know what I mean?

I do believe in miracles though. Perhaps we will see one here, who knows

[Lee]

For some reason I have always been sent a copy, but the address inside is

 

TEN

Hill Media Ltd

Marash House

2-5 Brook Street

Tring

Herts

HP23 5ED

 

01442 826826

email tencoling@aol.com

[hibsjo(SCO)]

Ok I ve had another mild mannered rant which has been emailed to the editor at the Cutting Edge Magazine,we will see if they print, oh and I plugged this site.

[kobblers]

excellent idea!!!! i'm penning my letter to the editor as we speak!

it will be interesting to see the outcome and i'll certainly give the site a mention.

rick.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Well the site has had some impact on getting letters posted to Cutting Edge, let's hope it is reciprical.

[Guest k@lsb]

just like to add, a bit to this interesting thread, ive been mending shoes etc since ,i was 16, years old ,i am now, 38, i have worked for big companys british shoe corporation, when it was still here, years ago, a multiple company.....not timpsons,and now a family run buisness, for the last 12 years,i really love doing what i do, i also have arthritus and chrohns disease, ive never lost faith in what i do, or the way i feel, ive met some great people, and become good freinds with customers,but ive never met a shoe repairer, who does not have a dig at another persons work,or standard of work, i personally beliave the most important person who ,must b happy with youre work, is youre customer, and no one else, we all can learn, no matter what age.and i certanly dont no it all, but the one thing all shoe repairers should learn , is to concerntrate on there customers, and c what there opinion is of youre work.if there happy,and success is when they return...with more work, i always pop into every shoe repairers, to have a look and if poss to speak to the guy in the shop, im not there to judge, just to look and admire, and get ideas.....ive met the son, of the owner of timpsons, at a exebition at whickstead park, a few years ago, i didnt, have to kiss his ass, cus i did not want a job, or he was not my boss, but what a very curtious and polite man, and even though we only exchanged small talk.........this sought of attitude can only b good for the industry.............i also no, Ted addler of essex shoe repairs, who he may be the boss of this company, but this is one man who has never lost touch with reality, a very kind and concederate man, and when i first became ill, when i was 20, and was off work for a long time months and months and had just tacken on my first morgage, this man stood buy me , and paid my morgage without question. or comeback, untill i was well enough to return, i did leave his company 6 years later, but this was only due to personal reasons, with these sort of people in our industry we, can all only go from strenght to strength, as i stated before, I LOVE WHAT I DO, and i may not be the best, and will never claim to be, but most OF ALL I THANK GOD ,THAT I CAN GET UP EVEY MORNING AND GO TO WORK AND DO SOMETHING I LOVE GET PAID, AND COME HOME TO MY WIFE AND DAUGHTER EACH DAY.................................THATS JOB SATISFACTION....... MY FAMILY. PS..........................ALL THE BEST REPAIRERS GO TO HEAVON FIRST.AND SADDLY AS IVE GOT OLDER AND GREYER IM SURE,WE ALL NO FELLOW REPAIRERS,UP THERE BEFORE US..............BUT WE WILL ALL GET THERE ONE DAY.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Nice posting k@lsb, what a pity more do not have your outlook on the trade.

Yes, the majority are cinical or sceptical of the work of others, an example of this is with competition winners getting comments such as "Yeah they may be able to do a perfect stitched through sole, but can they stitch a zip in to perfection or put a patch on a burst upper".

I have met thousands of repairers over the years but the number of craftsfolk that I have met with your mentality I can count on my fingers.

Do your best and understand that there is always someone somewhere who can do a better job technically but the most important skill is interacting with the customer. One may get away with poor workmanship but not poor customer service.

Best wishes for the New Year to all.