Guest lee. Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Just had a call from our local council telling me that it has been brought to there attention that we are supplying RADAR ( disabled toilet ) Keys , they have told us that we are not allowed to sell these and that rigorous checks are made before they issue them to members of the public. This is not a key we sell hundreds of , or activley promote , in fact sold just a handfull in the past year , and only to people that come with one already and ask if we can copy it , obviously using our discretion on who we will sell them to. Please can either one of our key suppliers , or someone who is in the know let me know the legal position on this before the boys in blue come and arrest me and shut the shop down . Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I've cut these as well, always felt uncomfortable about it, but feel the blanks not a restricted section & that they people who came up with the concept should have thought about the lock when they started fitting them! Clarification would be interesting. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lee. Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Been trawling the web looking for details on this key system , most councils sell them , and many websites, it appears that the main reason for asking for disability details is so they can void the VAT due on the purchase and sale of these keys , eBay is also full of them , one muppet selling them cut on a shorter standard head key ( been asked to do this before , only to find the thickness of some of the doors mean the key will not go in ). We do not cut these but buy them in as a pre-cut from our suppliers , no mention of it being resticted in the book ! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cjm Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I've just checked with our directors and as far as we are aware there is no problem with you supplying them. Without mentioning any names there is a company who supply them all over the country. This is the first I have heard of of there being a problem with selling this key. It is not patented or anything as far as we know and we will continue to supply it. I would ask your local council for proof of this or where they are getting this information from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lee. Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Thanks to CJM for the info regarding our position supplying these keys , looks like it is some "jobsworth" at Solihull Council who has nothing better to do thought they could earn some "brownie points" today, it is not as if we are undercutting the price that THEY sell them for . Whilst on the subject are there any hard and fast rules regarding the cutting of keys that are in the sections "Security Procedures Apply", we use our discretion and if unsure ask for letter of authorisation from whoever owns the building or the lock . Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discodave Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 sks told me that if you can buy the blank then you are allowed to cut the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cjm Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I should add that you should really only be supplying these to people who are registered disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lee. Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 So just the disabled are allowed to buy them , are we now to start examining customers to check if they actually do qualify for a key , what documents should we ask for , do we need to start a new book on who we have sold one to . Only joking Chris ! we do not activly advertsie the fact that we can supply them , we only sell them to customers who already have one asking the question " Can you cut one of these", quite often it is relatives of a disabled person , or there Carers or Nurses that ask for these . Pretty sure the online sellers , both eBay ,and Radar affiliated websites are not bothered who they supply them to , as i said before the reason they will ask for proof of disability is to void the VAT payable on these and many other essential items such as Mobility items ,Scooters, replacement Batteries etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cjm Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 In response to the previous posts: The keys we mark " Security Procedures Apply " are from locks which could have been fitted in security sensitive situations and were sold by manufacturers as " security locks " and/or are from master keyed suites. There is no legal reason not to supply these keys, but we would recommend the following minimum procedure when asked for them: 1) Ask the customer for identification if they have it. 2) Note the make and type of key and any numbers which are on it. 3) Keep a written record of all this information and the transaction. 4) If you have any reason to doubt the authenticity of the customer, then refuse to supply the key. Obviously, everything is really down to your own discretion, and the only keys you should not attempt to duplicate are those marked with a patent number. Most security and patented keys can be supplied to number, thought it can be expensive. If you prefer this route, then you need to obtain written authorisation from the owner. We can then either obtain the key for you, or point you in the direction of the supplier. Keys marked with the name of the original supplier can usually only be obtained from them. Hope this helps, but if I've missed anything let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lee. Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Thanks for the "Security Procedures apply" info , similar to what we do already , little bit of common sense is all that is needed. Sometimes we get asked for keys by people who do not "appear" to be the right sort of person to be asking for particular keys , if we are in any doubt we say no sorry we cannot duplicate this for you unless you can provide a written order . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobblers Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 That's a pile of twaddle smmulti that they're giving you. They can't stop you supplying your customers with these keys as they can be used anywhere in the country and they only have jurisdiction in their own county. Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKS_User Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Seems like even the RADAR organsiation isn't that fussy http://radar-shop.org.uk/Detail.aspx?id=0 No mention there of restricting the sale, only that they have to charge VAT if you don't provide proof of your disability registration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lee. Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 It appears that people who are not "entitled" have been using the "Facilities" for unauthorised purposes ( spotted by CCTV ?), the council obviously do not realise how easy it is to obtain these from other sources , and think we have been selling them to just anybody,wish they would do the same with the "Blue Badges". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto Key Wizard Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 people who are not "entitled" have been using the "Facilities" for unauthorised purposes You need to sell um a walking stick at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobblers Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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