Stitching welted footwear without an outsoler!

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Cold irons just compress Tel not put a layaer of wax on.

Oh is that so? You just have't knock every comment & achievement, don't ya

 

That information is not knocking anything or anyone, just a clarification.

And yes JR soles do trim better with a sharp cutter and so do not need so much effort with an iron, and yes is would not be the done thing to scour their logo off on a bottom scourer.

And yes you are taking this way out of the context in that I was saying that you cant get as good a finish on modern machinery.

Time / Dust / Health & Safety / Ease of use etc do not enter into that statement.

If you are saying that you can produce a better finish on your 700 than you could on the older ones then that is down to your expertise.

My expertise is producing a finish on older machines that is better than on a modern one. Nothing more than that, if you and Keith wish to take offence please be my guest.

[Lee]

So you don’t own an outsole stitcher for what ever reason, well here’s what I’m sure will be a controversial alternative using a singer 29K

 

And it did become a Controversial topic!

 

Lee

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Still a very good idea for whatever reason.

I now remember using this method around the early 60s with some very fine welt ladies shoes fromItaly that had a 2 iron leather sole on them. A goodyear would have ripped them to shreds, I forgot about that one!!

The welt was sililiar to a piece of upper leather which in fact was not a true welt but stitched on like a moccasin sole using what would appear to have been a patcher thread, then the thin sole was on top of this. Never saw them again in later years.

[Corlas]

Sorry because this post is impossible to understand to me, too much english words to me

 

I'm especialy interesting in your idea Ingenious Lee,

 

But I've a doubt, you use normal thread? You pass sewing only one time or various?.

 

Because my thinking is too much hard for resistance.

 

May be you've said it, but I'm losing reading this post. Is my pain

 

Health!

[Lee]

Its some time ago since I was using this method daily, But I used to use Sylko polyester craft thread and although I don't remember what weight it was it was slightly thicker than the singer No.30 patching thread.

 

Lee

[ironplanet uk900]

Cold irons just compress Tel not put a layaer of wax on.

Oh is that so? You just have't knock every comment & achievement, don't ya

 

That information is not knocking anything or anyone, just a clarification.

And yes JR soles do trim better with a sharp cutter and so do not need so much effort with an iron, and yes is would not be the done thing to scour their logo off on a bottom scourer.

And yes you are taking this way out of the context in that I was saying that you cant get as good a finish on modern machinery.

Time / Dust / Health & Safety / Ease of use etc do not enter into that statement.

If you are saying that you can produce a better finish on your 700 than you could on the older ones then that is down to your expertise.

My expertise is producing a finish on older machines that is better than on a modern one. Nothing more than that, if you and Keith wish to take offence please be my guest.

 

Firstly, Although I don't agree with some of the points made in this topic,I do respect the views of other members. If Hugh says he can make a better job on the older type machines I believe him, why shouldn't I !! he has tons of experience. Hes probably forgot more than most know.

 

Cold irons just compress Tel not put a layaer of wax on.

 

That quote is not right though Hugh. alot of irons had small flat spots that would pick up the wax.

 

My expertise is producing a finish on older machines that is better than on a modern one. Nothing more than that, if you and Keith wish to take offence please be my guest.

 

I agree with Hugh on this point though.

 

I was told I was a bad debater some time ago, I took it on board because he was right. Remember, in this case its just an opinion and not writen in stone. He does it that way, I do it this way.........So what, If your good your good, no one can take it away from you.

 

Although the odd ruck is quite entertaining

 

By the way the Debater bit wasn't having a go at anyone else, I was mererly pointing it out, Theres no need to get uperty at others just cus you don't quite agree

 

uk900 2007

[Auto Key Wizard]

Cold irons just compress Tel not put a layaer of wax on.

Oh is that so? You just have't knock every comment & achievement, don't ya

if you and Keith wish to take offence please be my guest.

 

Cold irons just compress Tel not put a layaer of wax on.

 

That quote is not right though Hugh. alot of irons had small flat spots that would pick up the wax.

 

uk900 2007

 

Thank you UK900, exactly right flat areas around the circumference which hold the wax

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

The so called flat spots on the iron are on all irons, (i am unaware of an iron manufacturer that does not put the flat spot on, although I would not say one does not exist somewhere) apart of course from the Regal Edge Setter, this is a device that uses the equivelant of the flat spot and occilates at speed rather than rotating.

Both methods use the flat part as a vibrating compressor of the fibres on the edge. They are not there to spread the wax but a secondary action is provided by the hot iron /setter in spreading whilst the beater (flat spot) compresses the edge and highlights the profile created by the correct size cutter on the trimmer.

If the iron size is not the identical size of the cutter then the profile is lost during ironing.

Most of todays finishers only have a limited set of irons, unlike the earlier versions that had a full compliment to match all the trimmer sizes from 10s to 26s in 2 iron steps. an interchangable screw on section dealt with irons for single soles from 2s to 8s in 1 & 2 step increments.

The wax has to be molten for it to be spread by the iron, this would entail having a heated iron or hot wax being ironed onto the edge before the wax has set (a pretty much impossible task).

If one has the correct size iron step to match the cutter then heating of the iron can be acheived by use of external rather than internal heat, or even friction from an twisted old apron twisted around the iron and pulled with some force.

[ironplanet uk900]

I don't know wether the flat spots were meant to hold wax or not. When I first came into the trade everyone used to put wax directly onto the iron, It works well and makes sense to me.

Not all irons had flat spots on though. I brought an old finisher years ago and it came with bayonett fitting cutters with the irons attached and they were smooth, no flat spots.

The vibration also makes sense and I was unaware of that

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Quite true the iron flat spots did hold thewax but that was because it could not run off when cold and stayed in the flat spot. If you were doing examination work then you would have to clean the iron flat spots of any wax that was of a different colour to the one being used and we used many different colours not just Black/Brown I can remember Green and Red but it was a long long time ago for me to remember all the colurs. The touch up sticks were available in just about every colour imaginable.

They would be very usefull for touching up marks on Stiletto heels (thats what they were originally made for)(soft wax sticks similiar to kids crayons )

Try to cast your mind back as I'm curious about the iron with no steps on it (thats what the flat spots were called).If you can remeber the name of the finisher it would be of interest to me.

Some of the single bayonet irons had no flats to them but I am more concerned with the multi sized irons.

[ironplanet uk900]

I know it was a whitfield, one of the first to be boxed in, I think. But the irons may not have been originally with the machine, infact I looked for them this afternoon but couldn't find them. I'm sure I still have them somewere. If I come across em I'll Let you know.

[Auto Key Wizard]

I used a HESS finisher at 'Minit' in the late eighties, that had single irons attached to each forepart cutter, they were matched to the cutter width, as I recall they had no steps on them, or did they?

[ironplanet uk900]

They did, I worked it toooooo

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Many single irons did not have the flats Tel but then again most did.

I never worked or saw a Hess in action but I did work on a revolutionary Raffenbaul (I think the spelling may be incorrect). That was of Germanorigin I think but also had the flat spots.

All without exception of the WHB finishers had irons with flat spots on them apart from the single screw on additions and even most of these did.

I still have my old multi sectioned iron somewhere up in the loft, I'll have to venture up there one day before I get to old to climb the ladder.

 

Post edited.... I wrongly said that Flat spots were called Steps, I was mistaken and now put this correct. The steps were the graduations.

[Ted Starzec]

just found this topic and enjoyed the wander down memory lane. The first finisher we had was an old ex factory K&B. In those days we had benchmen and finishers with the finishers being the elite glory boys. I still recall how I had to regularly shorten the dive belt to the multi head trimmer, struggle to close the split wheels so they wouldn't bump (very painful with the "rough" wheel) and the dear old bottom scourer. the smoother I could get it the better and I almost cried when I had to replace the mirror like paper with a 120 grit new one because it took ages to get them just right. Then there was the edge iron,gas heated as I recall, with a gas flame to melt the heel ball. Any one that has used one knows that there is no way to get that quality of finish without proper cutters and a stepped heated iron. Then came yankee wax..................... and the commercially acceptable job. Well that is progress.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Hooray Ted, at last someone who agrees that you cant beat proper trimmers, heated irons and bottom scourers.

Machine manufacturers try to tell us otherwise but I would bet a fair whack that the winner of the Rendenbach competition will have been done using at least the heated wax heated iron and individual trimmers, though I bet the bottom scouring will be done very carefully by hand so as not to damage the gold embossed logo.