Polyurethane causing me grief

[Cranky Franky]

Hi there . I am an Australian cobbler and we tend to do things a little different here  ,Mainly we are not as good as the Brits at repairing shoes  . Cricket is another matter but I don't want to pick a fight . LOL

 Polyurethane soles are my nemesis and cause me endless grief . Although i specialize in high end shoes , Mainly R M Williams and Northampton factory shoes from England . However I do get my fair share of cheap crap where the repair often exceeds the cost of the shoe . The customer wants heels and Topy on polyurethane one piece  soles  . My problem is getting glue to stick to the PU not the Topy or heels . I have been priming the soles with super glue  and it does work sort of but fails many times too .  My question is what is the industry standard in Britain for dealing with this ? I have narrowed down my search to a Primer made by Renia PUR primer . Is this what you guys use ? Is there a better product ?  Are there any alternatives ? Or does anyone have any tips to make better use of the Renia . Is there a perfect primer to glue combination ? My reps don't know $hit and all the old timers i ask have little or no knowledge about PU so it is with humble heart i ask advice from the Poms .

[elfman]

first off i would ask what rubber are you using to replace the sole ,you would be best trying to use like for like ,if using a herder rubber with little flex then it will fail sooner or later ,then what glue are you using is another question ,have you tried giving then a wash with thinners first , i suggest putting some thinners in a bowl the dipping a dish sponge in it and wiping the sole with it and gently rub it with a soft wire brush allow it to dry ,then  i would ask are you using the flexible super glue or the standard stuff, every one over here will have there own method and we all have our preferred glues , in my case i like the renia ortek up to now it has not let me down 

[Michael]

If it's the PU I'm thinking of then I use Renia Rehagol yellow label primer and Renia Colle De Cologne adhesive.

No problems with any rubber heels or soles.

Actually, my mistake, I was thinking of Thermoplastic (TUR).

For PU, (which I presume is the same as the old PVC) I do the same as KJ on the post below.

Green label primer and Renia Colle De Cologne or Multi Colle.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Michael
Wrong info given

[K.J.Holmes]

Hi

As elfman said we all have our own different ways, my way is apply renia pur primer ( green label ) then I put one coat of renia multicolle immediately after primer. I then leave it for two or three hours then go back and apply second coat of glue on shoes. I just leave it overnight like that, next day re heat shoes and soles and heels to just a nice warm temperature ( not hot! ) . Put soles and heels on shoes and press by hand firmly, no need to blast it with a hammer so it nearly bounces back into your face. Let it all set and go cold before trimming and finishing. Sticks fantastic this way. 

Yes try to use a flexible rubber sole and not a stiff type that will create pull while they're a walking. 

I personally don't like using half soles and heels on pu,I like to use a full unit if possible. 

Anyway hope my way helps if you try it.

 

[Cranky Franky]

Thanks for the prompt reply gents . To answer some questions

I use a flexible super glue from my wholesaler not the regular hardware store stuff . I wipe it on with a cloth . I have to be careful so not to burn my eyes from the fumes or start a fire with the cloth . I have tried thinners but it tends to glaze the sole after i have roughed them and intuitively i don't think it is a good idea  

The heels i usually use are a Svig brand . Normal run of the mill heel rubber however the Topy brand heel looks the same but is harder to trim . As a rule i try to match the softness of the original with the type i replace .

I use half soles .The regular 2mm Topy with the fine grip and if the sole is a bit thin i use a 3mm Topy . The 3mm is of a different rubber ,Its thicker but softer . This 3mm seems to stick better .

I have found i have a better success rate using the yellow rubber contact than clear PVC

 Our standard yellow glue is called Bondura .

We don't have a good variety of full soles to choose from in Australia and the cost of repair exceeds the value of the shoes in the end .So we tend to just bodge them up and send them on their way .

 After reading the comments something KJ Holmes said  got me thinking . I think i might tend to overcook the glue .

I am ordering the Renia primer and glue in the morning and see how i go .

To my utter despair Florshiem seem to favor the PU soles as standard now . Even the new imperials are not welt stitched leather soles . They may be in England but not here . I think because of our proximity to China we tend to get $hit quality shoes so people buy them instead of quality welted shoes . The exception is RM Williams  I repair over 1000 RM'S a year however they are not exceptional shoes in relation to a Northampton factory shoe. I could do a 1 hour video on the problems with RM'S but they would probably sue me .

Another question . I get a lot of Italian made shoes with glue down soles coming in for a re-glue. Not sure what glue they use but it is a consistent failure in both men's and women's shoes . I am only successful if i can manage to remove the sole and give both the shoe and sole a light sand . The glue in question is a tacky clear type but not like anything we use or can get .  Do you guys have any tips to deal with that ?   

Once again guys thanks for the replies your advice was helpful

[Auto Key Wizard]

8 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

super glue

Cyano Acrylate (CA) is NOT for footwear!

[K.J.Holmes]

The soles you mentioned sound fine to use especially the softer 3 mm topy. You need to bin that super glue you will damage the pu as it will crack and split when shoe bends while walking. Don't fret I get plenty of rubbish quality footwear in for repairs and I know of that horrible tacky goop you mentioned I've seen it a few times, diabolical stuff, can't do nothing with it so I avoid it completely. Really low end shoes use that garbage. When you get your renia primer and glue in you'll see a massive difference from what you have been using.

Let us know how you get on with it. 

[Rodney Sothmann]

I have good success gluing pu by keeping a jar of VERY thin colle de collogne for a primer.  In these cases I prime both sides and ensure that the next coat is on the thinner side of normal i dont find that super glues work well with pu. 

the renia primer is a pain and goes bad quickly if there are any particles in it.  When I used to use it I'd pour a bit into a shot glass to use to ensure I didn't spoil the whole jar

[x minit uk]

I use the yellow label rehagol stuff on any candle wax looking surface, leave for 10 mins then cement with 50/50 . Heat it immediately then lightly press. Haven’t got time to leave for hours or overnight, customers would get bored waiting. Always works for me .

[rob g]

Halogen mono 460 primer,Poligrip 999 glue here.got the tip for vibram repairs.prime both surfaces,wait 10 mins,apply glue,heat till warm then press with hand.

works brilliant,high heat resistance so good for Oz i expect.

used to use yellow label and 5050,good for some but pretty poor on others

[Kenny the Cobbler]

As above, I use Renia yellow label for smooth plastic green Renia for porus plastic then Bostic 50/50 and as above, to hot it won't stick and to cold it won't stick.

We have a high success rate not much stuff comes back 

[Cranky Franky]

Thanks for all the help gents .

Some further question in regards to the primers .

I know and understand that  cross contamination can occur with the Renia primers if used with a brush in the bottle , therefore pour the required amount into a separate container and discard what you don't use . Is the brush used washable with thinners or water or is the brush then discarded after one use  ?

Can the primers be used with those difficult to stick plastic / rubber crap .( Not even sure what that stuff is)  You know the stuff i mean . Soft one piece soles that you have to cut the heel off because it clogs the belts and gets hot . The stuff on cheap shoes 

I understand the Renia primers have a shelf life after opening .What is the real field use time frame ? I ask this so i don't buy 250mls and it goes off on me before i can use it all when i can buy 100ml bottles . Does keeping them in the fridge prolong life ?

 I am not familiar with 50/50 .Is it one of the bostik products shown above ? What is it good for .

I will have to ask my suppliers if they carry the bostik . I have seen bostik glues in other forms but not specifically for foot wear . I am sure some one will have it somewhere . 

Generally we use a yellow contact for 90% of the repairs and pvc when required and my favorite stuff for work boots and hiking boots is shoegoo .

Sorry to bust your chops guys but i want to get this sorted so i can be happy Larry not cranky Franky. ( not my real name by the way )

[Cranky Franky]

An update , My primer and glue arrived and I have used it successfully. Everything seems to have stuck well but i will wait 2 weeks before i can claim victory . I ordered both the green primer and yellow but i am yet to use the yellow . The glue states that it does not use toluene however it is a bit wiffy . I am going to experiment more but initial results tell me that this may be my go to glue for any rubber to rubber/ PU/ man made compound  combinations. I breath a sigh of relief .

Thanks to everyone who responded . Untill the next one . 

[Bren]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:23 AM, Cranky Franky said:

Hi there . I am an Australian cobbler and we tend to do things a little different here  ,Mainly we are not as good as the Brits at repairing shoes  . Cricket is another matter but I don't want to pick a fight . LOL

 Polyurethane soles are my nemesis and cause me endless grief . Although i specialize in high end shoes , Mainly R M Williams and Northampton factory shoes from England . However I do get my fair share of cheap crap where the repair often exceeds the cost of the shoe . The customer wants heels and Topy on polyurethane one piece  soles  . My problem is getting glue to stick to the PU not the Topy or heels . I have been priming the soles with super glue  and it does work sort of but fails many times too .  My question is what is the industry standard in Britain for dealing with this ? I have narrowed down my search to a Primer made by Renia PUR primer . Is this what you guys use ? Is there a better product ?  Are there any alternatives ? Or does anyone have any tips to make better use of the Renia . Is there a perfect primer to glue combination ? My reps don't know $hit and all the old timers i ask have little or no knowledge about PU so it is with humble heart i ask advice from the Poms .

Rehagol primer, PA5050 glue. Heat lamp

[Bren]

On 9/7/2023 at 2:04 PM, Cranky Franky said:

Thanks for all the help gents .

Some further question in regards to the primers .

I know and understand that  cross contamination can occur with the Renia primers if used with a brush in the bottle , therefore pour the required amount into a separate container and discard what you don't use . Is the brush used washable with thinners or water or is the brush then discarded after one use  ?

Can the primers be used with those difficult to stick plastic / rubber crap .( Not even sure what that stuff is)  You know the stuff i mean . Soft one piece soles that you have to cut the heel off because it clogs the belts and gets hot . The stuff on cheap shoes 

I understand the Renia primers have a shelf life after opening .What is the real field use time frame ? I ask this so i don't buy 250mls and it goes off on me before i can use it all when i can buy 100ml bottles . Does keeping them in the fridge prolong life ?

 I am not familiar with 50/50 .Is it one of the bostik products shown above ? What is it good for .

I will have to ask my suppliers if they carry the bostik . I have seen bostik glues in other forms but not specifically for foot wear . I am sure some one will have it somewhere . 

Generally we use a yellow contact for 90% of the repairs and pvc when required and my favorite stuff for work boots and hiking boots is shoegoo .

Sorry to bust your chops guys but i want to get this sorted so i can be happy Larry not cranky Franky. ( not my real name by the way )

My primer has never 'gone off' but if you leave the top off the bottle it will evaporate. If using a small bottle, place it in an empty cotton buds container so it doesnt fall over.