Ingersoll S or N?

[kobblers]

Can anyone help me to ID this, please?

From the image, the code appears to be IG14 and the blanks I have look like either ING S or N.

Nothing in the JMA cross-refernce book.

Kind regards. Rick

Edited March 4, 2023 by kobblers

[Shoeboy 41]

Hope this helps rick

[Trev]

These are the JMA versions of ingersoll s and n, you can see 'n' is flatter on one side, but your key is not.

[Trev]

Hi,

The cuts seem to line up in the same places with the JMA ING-S blank as on your ILCO/ORION key.

Trev

Edited March 5, 2023 by Trev

[Growster]

Hi Trev, I think you already explained how to do with the lines. Could you kindly re-explain that?

 

[Trev]

Hi,

Using a graphics editor, I use https://www.gimp.org/:

1. rotate the original image so that one of the lines along the key is horizontal (it usually helps if you zoom in make the key full screen to do that).

2. select a colour that isn't in the original image (e.g. red, so that "select by colour" will work later), zoom in and using the pencil tool (and mostly holding the shift key down to draw lots of short straight lines) draw the line around the original key - using a size of 2 pixels across for the pencil tool is a good idea as it makes the outline clearer.

3. Open the second image and rotate it so that the lines along the key are horizontal.

4. On the first image use "Select by Colour" to select the outline from the first image, copy the outline and paste onto second image.

5. The pasted image is probably at a different scale, so make a guess how far out it is, undo the paste, scale the second image and re-paste the outline image.

6. repeat step 5 until the pasted image matches key.

7. Change the canvas size of the first image so that there is room for the key from the second image, using the select tool outline the second image, copy and paste it into the new space created in the original image.

8. Use the select tool to outline the two keys, copy and paste to new image (to make the image of a size to remove excess background - you could do this by changing the canvas size, but using the select tool and copying and doing "paste as new" is quicker and it is easier to see exactly what you are cropping out).

9. save the image.

The graphics software I use is free open source software, the equivalent in commercial software would be Adobe Photoshop - there are tutorials for both online.

Using a large computer screen and a trackball makes the above operations easier than it would be otherwise.

Trev

[nxasdf]

Simple answer: The profile in question is the S section, not N.

The bitting is: 23134 for side A (5 cuts shifted to the tip), 31214 for side B (5 cuts shifted to the bow).

The stamped code should start with "307 S" but I don't have the second half listed, not sure why.

 

On 3/5/2023 at 9:43 AM, Trev said:

The cuts seem to line up in the same places with the JMA ING-S blank as on your ILCO/ORION key.

I don't understand, the cut specifications (space/depth) are identical for all the common Ingersoll sections including N and S, like A, E, M, N, W, etc. Only the keyway profile is different which tracing around the whole key proves nothing. Though, tracing around the key can help figure different problems out so it's still good to know how to do it!

Edited March 6, 2023 by nxasdf

[Trev]

I wasn't referring to the cut specification, I was trying to show graphically (from the images provided) that the high and low points on the profile of the Ilca/Orion key line up with the high and low points on the profile of the JMA ING-S key blank.

As you say the simple answer is that the profile in question is the S section, not N.

Sorry if my wording was a bit unclear or if the images were unhelpful.