Auto locksmith

[Poole Key Locksmiths Ltd]

Hey all,

I'm just looking into venturing into the auto locksmiths world. Need to know the best course to go on and what machinery is needed?

 

I have a basic idea but need to get the prices before committing.

 

TIA

Lee

[Count Muppet]

Use the search bar to find a bargain from one of the many others who thought it would be easy money 

[grahamparker]

Approx Minimum of £5000 without on a shoestring and you wont be able to do much to start with.

15-20k for a reasonable startup will cover most of the straight forward jobs.

50k plus if you want to do everything and continual investment after that.

There are a lot of people selling up that thought the auto locksmith path is paved with gold only to soon realise it is but only if you invest big and have good support when things go wrong and when your starting they do.

[rapidlocks]

50k , i wish , i have alot more than this in oem key stock alone these days .

 

[grahamparker]

19 minutes ago, rapidlocks said:

50k , i wish , i have alot more than this in oem key stock alone these days .

 

I did say PLUS

[Gray]

I got my coat ages ago.  Best thing I ever did before I got in too deep. 

[rapidlocks]

its impossible to put a price on things from the info given , what is it exactly your hoping to set up to do ?

all keys lost jobs ?

spare remote keys ?

just clone std keys ?

or all of the above ?

this will help aim responses at the kit you may need . then of course the most crucial bit , what coverage do you want to be able to cover , ie what makes , models and years ? as this will determine the level of investment required and which kits is reliable , if wanting to do everything then id say an investment approaching 75k plus will be needed as well as alot of research study and practice to reach a competent level may also be needed.

ie if just wanting to cover ford and vauxhall to start , then your investment is lower than if wanting ford vauxhall and vag , if wanting mercedes , bmw etc as well , fiat and so on your investment needs will increase . if wanting to do every car and van then give up now as nothing exists that does this yet .

you could set up with china kit with a 10k set up and do some jobs and get a foothold , you could invest 100k and get nowhere if not for you or if your area cant give the returns .

decide where you hope to start , exactly what it is you hope to offer , then fit the right kit and stock to the needs identified , it beats buying blind every time.

research the area , who is the local competitors , from the good to the bad to the cheap beer boys to the shops and associated trades offering keys , what sort of rates do they charge for the jobs your hoping to offer . this gives you the most valuable info of all , ie will you be able to compete and will you achieve payback on your investment locally.

i would advise doing this research long before looking at training , as no current training course will bring you to any sort of competency level , you will get basic skills training and basic knowledge , it will then take time and hard work to reach competency , another reason to fully research your needs , costs and area is you wont be blinded by hard to realise payback scenarios and wont be tempted into buying what the training outfits are selling kit wise unless identified as a prospect by your research. i believe lockdecoders now offers a training and set up package for general lockies wanting to cross over to the dark side.

dont neglect correct insurances for working with vehicles on the public highway , even to the point of having cover to drive the car your working on , a few have come unstuck on this with over zealous police officers , as if your sat in front seat in a car on public highway with the keys or with the engine running then technically your in charge of the vehicle so can fall foul on a tecnicality .

proper research and proper business plan should point you to all the answers you need 

the one thing i can guarantee , it will be the most expensive decision you ever make as the costs and investment never stop , things change so often you will be forever updating , upgrading and adding more stock , it will frustrate you , it will send you into panic on many occassions on set up especially when doing a simple spare and the car now wont work on the original keys either , every day is a school day and all for alot less profit than of old , its one area where costs are high and increase yearly yet rewards get slimmer as rates dropping faster than a tarts knickers .

but if you study hard , work hard , invest adequately , trade honestly and survive the 1st few years then theres no area better to work in.

[rapidlocks]

but i will try to answer your question on machinery etc , based on wanting to do all keys lost , spare keys and clone keys .

1) full set of lishi picks and decoders ( or at least all tools relevent to the makes and models you want to cover)

2) tibbe pick and decoder

3) basic entry tools 

now the higher cost items 

4) good quality cut to code machine

this is one area i wouldnt advise skimping in , often buying at the cheaper end of the market results in the need for buying twice . obviously if you have done your homework and know the most common cars in your area , and know what your budget allows you to cover , then this helps as you can fit the machine to needs . ie if alot of 2015 on vag then silca futura of keyline ninja laser are best bets as both cover these keys , these 2 also cover the latest ford keyway , but are dearer than cheaper options , with keyline updates are free for life so always get latest software . so a good long lasting long term cut to code machine will be over 6k generally , cheaper options of good well supported machines are available like miracle A9 , and of course plenty like the cheap condor mini , however this has alot of gaps in coverage and still miscuts plenty . id always advise silca or keyline as long term business assets that will last .

5) manual machines 

tibbe machine is a must as cuts keys far quicker and far more accurate than the clamps for cut to code machines , laser tracing machine like silca matrix is always useful and a cylinder machine .

6) key cloning equipment 

cant beat silca rw4 with m box , but id advise a handy baby too due to every day chip costs 

7) diagnostics

despite being an expensive machine to use and the fact that the provision for token costs or utp can be crippling , it is always worth having an mvp pro or new smart pro in your arsenal as huge coverage , though the latest smart pro isnt without its issues at present , but worth having as your back up machine .

fully loaded truecode is an excellent choice , very simple to use , and just works well on what it claims to work on and fully token free 

tdb1000 is a low cost token free machine thats doing very well 

G scan , if you get alot of asian makes , like hyundai , kia , suzuki ,  mazda , honda and nissan etc then cant beat either g scan 2 or the g scan tab by far the best token free low cost programmer for these and is the same tool the main dealer uses on hyundai and kia .

supervag is a useful low cost token free programmer for vag vehicles 

the new im600 from lock decoders looks interesting

abrites is the daddy of tools especially for vag , mercedes , bmw , fiat  vauxhall , peugeot , citroen , nothing beats it but it is expensive but token free and with the best coverage.

there are also a number of specialist programmer for specific makes that ease your work and increase your success , but at a hefty cost.

from china some good kit includes 

vvdi2 for vag and for bmw  and vvdi mb tool for mercedes 

token savers from china that can keep token costs down are , obdstar x300 dp , lonsdor k518 , and a few odd specialist tools like jlr tool from lonsdor the trick with buying china kit is knowing what not to plug it into.

id advise a vag tacho and a vcds to anyone doing vag as well , a few dealer tools can also pay their way , why so many options for vag above , well all have the strengths weaknesses and failures , all do something the other doesnt and all have coverage the next doesnt , so the more options you have the more success you have.

despite how alot of diag kit is sold and advertised , token free is always best and no one programmer does enough to build a business on , multiple programmers and options are needed and even if you buy them all you still have gaps in coverage and fails .

i could go on and on about diag as so many other options to fill coverage gaps . then of cousre if wanting eeprom functions theres another whole line of equipment for eeprom work .

STOCK

id always advise a keydiy kdx2 and keydiy remotes as a stock saver and acceptable budget after market range to offer but id also keep a stock of each oem remote on the common models you see alot of , take vauxhall , theres around 20 common different remotes for vauxhall , ford aroun 25 , peugeot around 40 , citroen around 40 , vag around 30 , then of course fiat , nissan etc etc , so you can see how this can grow to become expensive , but stock is necessary if hoping to get the lost key jobs as if you cant do job same day you will lose job to someone that can unless you undercut the hell out of it which is self defeating.

its alot to consider , which is why i advise proper research so you can focus your buying rather than buy blind .

[futura12]

get a big bank loan cos onc you start it never ends  even half what you need 60000 investment 

 

 

[CDTL]

Money pit 

[Poole Key Locksmiths Ltd]

6 hours ago, Count Muppet said:

Use the search bar to find a bargain from one of the many others who thought it would be easy money 

I don't think it will be easy money. I get loads wanting keys, broken keys, failed locks etc on vehicles that I give away at present, getting around 10 a week so it makes sense to do it.

[Poole Key Locksmiths Ltd]

3 hours ago, rapidlocks said:

but i will try to answer your question on machinery etc , based on wanting to do all keys lost , spare keys and clone keys .

1) full set of lishi picks and decoders ( or at least all tools relevent to the makes and models you want to cover)

2) tibbe pick and decoder

3) basic entry tools 

now the higher cost items 

4) good quality cut to code machine

this is one area i wouldnt advise skimping in , often buying at the cheaper end of the market results in the need for buying twice . obviously if you have done your homework and know the most common cars in your area , and know what your budget allows you to cover , then this helps as you can fit the machine to needs . ie if alot of 2015 on vag then silca futura of keyline ninja laser are best bets as both cover these keys , these 2 also cover the latest ford keyway , but are dearer than cheaper options , with keyline updates are free for life so always get latest software . so a good long lasting long term cut to code machine will be over 6k generally , cheaper options of good well supported machines are available like miracle A9 , and of course plenty like the cheap condor mini , however this has alot of gaps in coverage and still miscuts plenty . id always advise silca or keyline as long term business assets that will last .

5) manual machines 

tibbe machine is a must as cuts keys far quicker and far more accurate than the clamps for cut to code machines , laser tracing machine like silca matrix is always useful and a cylinder machine .

6) key cloning equipment 

cant beat silca rw4 with m box , but id advise a handy baby too due to every day chip costs 

7) diagnostics

despite being an expensive machine to use and the fact that the provision for token costs or utp can be crippling , it is always worth having an mvp pro or new smart pro in your arsenal as huge coverage , though the latest smart pro isnt without its issues at present , but worth having as your back up machine .

fully loaded truecode is an excellent choice , very simple to use , and just works well on what it claims to work on and fully token free 

tdb1000 is a low cost token free machine thats doing very well 

G scan , if you get alot of asian makes , like hyundai , kia , suzuki ,  mazda , honda and nissan etc then cant beat either g scan 2 or the g scan tab by far the best token free low cost programmer for these and is the same tool the main dealer uses on hyundai and kia .

supervag is a useful low cost token free programmer for vag vehicles 

the new im600 from lock decoders looks interesting

abrites is the daddy of tools especially for vag , mercedes , bmw , fiat  vauxhall , peugeot , citroen , nothing beats it but it is expensive but token free and with the best coverage.

there are also a number of specialist programmer for specific makes that ease your work and increase your success , but at a hefty cost.

from china some good kit includes 

vvdi2 for vag and for bmw  and vvdi mb tool for mercedes 

token savers from china that can keep token costs down are , obdstar x300 dp , lonsdor k518 , and a few odd specialist tools like jlr tool from lonsdor the trick with buying china kit is knowing what not to plug it into.

id advise a vag tacho and a vcds to anyone doing vag as well , a few dealer tools can also pay their way , why so many options for vag above , well all have the strengths weaknesses and failures , all do something the other doesnt and all have coverage the next doesnt , so the more options you have the more success you have.

despite how alot of diag kit is sold and advertised , token free is always best and no one programmer does enough to build a business on , multiple programmers and options are needed and even if you buy them all you still have gaps in coverage and fails .

i could go on and on about diag as so many other options to fill coverage gaps . then of cousre if wanting eeprom functions theres another whole line of equipment for eeprom work .

STOCK

id always advise a keydiy kdx2 and keydiy remotes as a stock saver and acceptable budget after market range to offer but id also keep a stock of each oem remote on the common models you see alot of , take vauxhall , theres around 20 common different remotes for vauxhall , ford aroun 25 , peugeot around 40 , citroen around 40 , vag around 30 , then of course fiat , nissan etc etc , so you can see how this can grow to become expensive , but stock is necessary if hoping to get the lost key jobs as if you cant do job same day you will lose job to someone that can unless you undercut the hell out of it which is self defeating.

its alot to consider , which is why i advise proper research so you can focus your buying rather than buy blind .

Cheers for this Martin, 

I'm looking primarily at replacement keys but will obviously move into programming etc at later date.

Machine wise was a little confusing but your words have helped. Im hopefully going to have around £15,000 budget to start with.

[rapidlocks]

getting calls is one thing , converting to jobs another especially with the rates alot will work for to get the nights beer money.

when you say you get calls for broken locks , heres your first stumbling block , there is lots of this work available , lock repair , lock replacement , rekeying locks etc , the reason that theres still plenty of this work is very few of the new lockies trading do this work , one because it means actually working and two because none of the courses actually cover removing locks from vehicles , stripping and releying and refitting in any real detail .

the only way to really learn this is to get to a scrappy and practice or practice on own vehicles and friends vehicles and buying columns on ebay and working on them to gain knowledge  .

this is an area none of the courses will give you enough of a grounding in , i suspect as doesnt lead to equipment sales , this is an area you use google and any cars you can get your hands on to learn .

broken keys can mean many things , for instance ;

broken buttons on remotes ( basic soldering skills and stock of buttons )

broken blades can be new key blade but also new cases

keys that use rechargable batteries needing cutting opening , new rechargable battery soldered in and recased  

the issue with this work is its hard to convert calls to jobs at what you need to charge if mobile , as the shops take on this work for peanuts , with some doing repair cases as cheap as £15 to £20 , button repairs a tenner . 

but this is a low cost area to get into as repair cases , buttons and solder are cheap as chips .

but plenty mess up on these jobs , its very easy to break boards and intergrated chips in which case the customer expects a new key , if you cant supply this yourself the cost to get someone to do it far exceeds what you are charging for the repair , i do very well out of these for a national firm who mess a good few up , but they do alot of repair work .

without programming equipment your up agains it on replacement keys , many shops do clone keys as low as £25 , so most replacements you will be asked for are remote keys that have failed or been lost.

if not doing all keys lost then a cut to code machine is overkill , and you may get by with a laser tracer , tibbe and cylinder machine . but when snapped in half a cut to code machine makes life easier as does developing the skill to site read keys .

if shop based then clone keys , recases and key repairs is a natural add on , if mobile these are not so easy to convert at a good price.

most these days want a remote key , even on spares , so keydiy and a bit of diag is still needed to get jobs .

thus research , once you id the services you wish to offer , you can then match the kit to your needs plus the kit you may need next plus an idea of the skills you will need to learn and probably on your own as not many will teach this stuff as most of the courses are focussed on selling cutters and programmers  .

if getting 10 calls a week , then if you have asked the right questions you will have an idea of exactly what the job is , this is also valuable data as helps you id the kit you need to cover these jobs and the skills required.

customers ringing with a broken lock , whats broken , whats happening , ie could just be seized and need freeing with lube , could be a broken lock , broken switch , wiring issue or broken linkage . keys stuck in ignition can often require steering columns and ignition switches to be dismantled and so on .

broken keys , if key wont start , its often a vehicle issue and not a key issue , the right questions stop wasted visits , more often than not its not the key at fault .common with certain vehicles.

even snapped blades , are not always a simple blade and often result in a case change.

so gather all the data you can on the jobs your giving away , this way you can target your learning and your buying and gear up to service these calls , so can be a valuable exercise , you just hope that the auto guys you currently pass this work to dont decide to do general as well to fill the hole from the auto jobs they have now lost .

research and a plan must be your first step , going blind is costly and foolish

[lock&quay]

If you see a Silca Viper going with an Edge kit I's snap that up ,Some people sell theirs to fund a Futura but if you are only doing car keys the Viper is a more robust machine .

[rapidlocks]

have to agree , ive used a viper for many years , still as good as new and will still be working hard when alot of machines have died , a proper workhorse and sound investment , its only issue is it will never cut the newer vag keys so will have some coverage gaps , but will still be working hard when many of the new machines have long since died.

[Poole Key Locksmiths Ltd]

Whats the Miracle A9 like?

Been toying with one but not from foreign parts!

 

[rob g]

I would of thought the market it saturated down here,the amount of locksmith vans I see stuck in traffic by my shop you wouldn’t believe ! Also the shop based,Bournemouth car key etc and competing with the established who get the worked past on from shops,I would do a lot of weighing up.

[Poole Key Locksmiths Ltd]

Well vehicle wise I know of 4 in the area and the shop. But as he is rude, people tend to not go there (so I am told).

So im quite happy to go down this road, im certain the jobs I pass on I will get and 98% I pass on gets done.

 

So thanks for the advice but im not a new starter in the locksmith trade and have a very good reputation in Dorset.

[lock&quay]

On 10/30/2018 at 11:29 AM, rapidlocks said:

have to agree , ive used a viper for many years , still as good as new and will still be working hard when alot of machines have died , a proper workhorse and sound investment , its only issue is it will never cut the newer vag keys so will have some coverage gaps , but will still be working hard when many of the new machines have long since died.

I didn't realise that about the VW keys from what year ? Can't Silca do an update like the one they did for the Edge kit ?

[rapidlocks]

No an update wont help , its due to not having the extra axis im told. from end of 2014 on some , those using the newer HU162 blade on the 9 and 10 cut key with side profile cuts . though ive been to 2017 golf still using hu66 . but these are certainly on the newer passat models from end of 2014 and the newer A4 etc .

so only affects the models using the new hu162 blades 

[lock&quay]

1 hour ago, rapidlocks said:

No an update wont help , its due to not having the extra axis im told. from end of 2014 on some , those using the newer HU162 blade on the 9 and 10 cut key with side profile cuts . though ive been to 2017 golf still using hu66 . but these are certainly on the newer passat models from end of 2014 and the newer A4 etc .

so only affects the models using the new hu162 blades 

Is there a machine that can do these ?

[grahamparker]

Triax e-code can. Needs the R100 jaw though.

I know of a second hand one for sale for £4000 + vat includes the Standard and R240 jaw (Cisa Astral/Abus keys).

It has cut close to 50,000 keys though but also has a few cutters with it.

Silca will have plenty of spares as the machine is still supported.

[rapidlocks]

also keyline ninja laser or total with the new V clamp and 1.5mm cutter , i also believe silca futura does these too .

but with a bit of thought and patience most can be copied on a laser tracing machine as well 

[simong]

Hi i am back in Poole  after  18 months  off  backing a shoe repairer shop with Avdi, mvp pro ,zed full true code key diy,  triax on its way. gravograph is400 volume   and glass engraving   brother embroidery and still spending prices are very low down here   due to the  amount of locksmiths and Auto guys  wish i was back in France and Spain 

[Poole Key Locksmiths Ltd]

On 11/3/2018 at 9:16 PM, simong said:

Hi i am back in Poole  after  18 months  off  backing a shoe repairer shop with Avdi, mvp pro ,zed full true code key diy,  triax on its way. gravograph is400 volume   and glass engraving   brother embroidery and still spending prices are very low down here   due to the  amount of locksmiths and Auto guys  wish i was back in France and Spain 

Hi Simon, just seen this!

 

Where in Poole are you? I could pop in to see you may get some embroidery done too lol

 

Lee