Just put this sign up - Sick of the arguments...

[Stanley Mishap]

Lol !...you can 'educate' someone all you like about these keys ,but 9 times out of 10 they just can't grasp why a 'key' is more than a fiver

 

...my mate who is an auto locksmith agrees - he says 'they won't pay more than a tenner for a spare - but when they're stuck in the dark outside their house and they've locked their only key inside the car they'll pay £250 easy !'

[marky1]

i agree

i bought a transponder from davo had it for a year was told its all singing dancing etc thought i would try small success but sold a few anyway 10 months down line went to order some more horse shoe blanks to be told we dont stock them any more obsolete whattt i only had 10 months "oh yes we have a much better machine now how much says I 2000

shove it up your arse says i

total waste of time I had people  with basic vauxhall  i would quote 45 quid no way thats mor than the car is worth what the hell are these people driving around in,

way to much hassle for me passport photos is brilliant

[Auto Key Wizard]

Well, I am at a loss what to say to the members in this topic that fail to make good profit from vehicle keys.

 

I've been employed in this industry since 1980.

I purchased the business in 1990, this shop did shoe repair, key cutting and some sundry sales (turnover was £35K).

In my first year I doubled turnover and registered for VAT.

In 1992 I purchased a Gravograph Unica. Later upgraded to Unica TX open version

In 1993 the birth of the Immobiliser on UK vehicles arrived.

In 1994-1999 I got requests for making these transponder keys.

Later I purchased a Silca RW2 and got the TEX-Code add-on (Keys were marketed at between £50-60)

In 2003 I purchase the Advanced Diagnostics AD100 to allow making keys to Vauxhall, and other vehicles that keys could not be emulated.

The AD100 was also upgraded in 2006 to the Pro version.

I had purchased a HPC Blitz, but needed to code cut back milled keys, A new Silca Viper was purchased @ £4600 + VAT

By consumer demand I was forced to add a mobile service, so a van was purchased to support lockouts and AKL (All Keys Lost) situations.

 

Between 2007 and now many tens of thousands have been spent, but in turn many hundreds of thousands have be made in profit.

 

One thing I have learned about vehicle keys.

Although I have Silca RW4 Plus and Megamos, for me I make more net profit coding keys/remotes diagnostically, less than 20 keys have been emulated on the Silca device in two years, As Graham says, maybe that's my purist nature.

 

I believe without diagnostics, good net profit can be made in-store.

I emulated a 2013 Fiat 500 key couple years back because a diagnostic solution wasn't available at the time, A dealer supplied standard key was £180, I charged £120, one happy customer and £90 net profit in the till.

 

Okay it took research and development to get my business where it is today, but 50% of my annual turnover is now in vehicle keys.

 

There is a trick one of my employees does when a customer says 'it's just a key, doesn't have an immobiliser' Where possible the transponder is removed from the key, before being given back to customer, a few minutes later they return stating the vehicle won't start

 

 

 

[grahamparker]

At my prices i make a really good profit. We average 10 transponders a week with a profit of £20.00 minimum on each key we do.

 

There are currently 6 others within 3 miles of my shop doing transponders (one was charging £25.00) so as i said if i charge

more then i won't make any profit as i will not be doing any.

 

I am luckier than most as i have been doing cloning from day 1. I was even given a machine by Colsons to test for 6 months and a load of free blanks and chips to get me going and have not looked back, that was in 1996.

 

I have had numerous cloning machines as well as an AD100 so we have invested but we have seen the boom days of Locksmithing , Auto locksmithing and keycutting slowly disapear.

 

As well as Terry i also could see what was happening so i puchased the Unocode399, then a couple of years later followed

with the Traix e-code (the best machine i have ever purchased).

 

Transponders and auto work is just a sideline for me as key cutting is still me no 1 revenue stream and always will be.

 

I am just unlucky to be in a town with so much competition otherwise my prices would be higher (which they had been until i had to price match).

 

On a plus note i do get my blanks and chips cheaper than almost anyone else which gives that little extra scope for pricing.

[Stanley Mishap]

About 5 years in - back when chipped keys started - we had a couple of golden years where about 3 out of 5 people just had these keys no probs ....

But now you've got youngsters and oldies whose key and car are worth about the same - well no chance !

Recently an irate mother kept repeating 'THE GARAGE SAID A PLAIN ONE WILL DO!'

After trying to 'explain' a few times I cut a 'plain' one (with an agreement there was no refund)...

Next morning she was back in with an even more angry son - who even tried to open my till to get a refund .....I had to threaten to knock the pair out just to get them out of my shop ....

 

Once again Good Luck if you are doing these keys in any amount ....as for the majority of us (and even the lads in 2 Timpsons shops I speak to)...it's a bloody nightmare ....and I don't think in the 20 years I've been doing them I've even had half the return in the kit I've bought....

[Simes]

I still routinely get customers bringing in remote's keys bought of ebay and wanting them cut which I charge for and usually happy to do.  Always tell them they won't start without having the transponder programmed.  They insist they will program them in manually usually Ford or BMW.  I explain well once but if they insist I don't argue.  Tell them once.  Cut the key.  Charge £15 then go and watch them trying to start the car.  Terrific entertainment 

[Simes]

I always use the same line about transponder chips pretty much wiped out car theft and hot wiring cars. I'm not sure if i'm totally right but they always understand the price after that line. 

Last statistic I saw was that 83% of cars are now stolen with the keys. That's a couple of years old now

[Simes]

I charge £35.00 - £39.95 inc vat for my Tansponder keys.

 

Local competition dictates my prices otherwise i would not cut any.

£49 here for all except ID48 which are £75.  I'm the dearer than my competitors.  I don't think "£75 all day long" would cut it where I am  We all know our own customer base and there is a difference from area to area.

[Stanley Mishap]

I still routinely get customers bringing in remote's keys bought of ebay and wanting them cut which I charge for and usually happy to do.  Always tell them they won't start without having the transponder programmed.  They insist they will program them in manually usually Ford or BMW.  I explain well once but if they insist I don't argue.  Tell them once.  Cut the key.  Charge £15 then go and watch them trying to start the car.  Terrific entertainment 

I refuse to do these (my local Timpsons do as well) ....as I've said to the customer in the past that I can't guarantee the key ...

I've said to them 'who do you go back to if the key doesn't work ?'

....'oh I don't mind if it don't work mate ! - just try it'

YEAH RIGHT !

[Simes]

Never had a problem.  I can usually tell looking at the key if the blank is wrong.  I warn that if the material is too hard I'll stop!  Never get any back and have broken one cutter in the 3 years or so that I have been doing it.  At £15 a shot I'll keep doing it.  I usually do several each day.  I charge the same as if I supply the blank blade so more profit too!   If I don't someone else likely will!  Admittedly they can park outside my shop to test it so not usually an issue.

[eimco]

Same here in Ireland cut the eBay key for 15-25 Euro but customer takes all the risk. No one around me will cut them and it's easy money and have gotten a few full car key sales because of it. When the key won't start they come back and buy one that will. Win win.

[grahamparker]

Had a customer about 3 weeks ago with a Range rover 3 button case hu92r bought from Amazon.

 

Warned him about the chip and remote swap before trying.

 

He went to the car and the key would not turn in the ignition so he used brute force to try and get it to work and then his original would not work.

 

He rang the AA who came (we know the AA guy really well) he stripped the lock off and both him and the customer came in with the customer trying to lay the blame on us.

 

What he did not now is in the bottom of the ignition there is a small solenoid bolt that releases when the chip and key are inserted and then sets the steering wheel and seat positions. Without the chip the bolt would not retract so he ended up bending the pin

housing.

 

I stripped the lock down to show him what he had done and managed to get if working again for him. Got an extra £90.00 + vat for that one and told him that we don't say "make sure you swap the remote and chip before trying" just for fun.

 

He has been back for other keys since then and always apologises each time he comes in for not listening.

[NYKeys]

He rang the AA who came (we know the AA guy really well) he stripped the lock off and both him and the customer came in with the customer trying to lay the blame on us.

 

If I'm reading the story right...it's a shame your mate the AA guy didn't back you up?

[Count Muppet]

The AA bloke probably didn't know what really caused it

[grahamparker]

If I'm reading the story right...it's a shame your mate the AA guy didn't back you up?

 

He DID, but he didn't know what had caused the problem until afterwards.

[Andy G7]

But there lies the problem. If you cut a key of theirs, and they cock the ignition up then no matter of they forced it, you told them no guarantee they will be straight in gobbing off and threatening.

We had one in before after Timpsons cut a SAAB, and after trying it were stuck, ignition would not turn. They wanted us to write a report about the cutting of they key etc, to take it further with T's. We declined, obviously don't know the full story and don't want to be involve in anything like this.

 

I did a 2008 Mondeo remote key a few months back and the customer pulls out his ebay key, can you do this also? Coded remote fine, cut mine fine, cut his..... sounded a lot harder. Went to code the keys, ours in and out ignition fine but his would go in 1/4 of the way and jam. So if this is outside our shop, and numpty customer forces they key in and damaged the wafers, he aint going away quickly and certainly not quietly. We have seen this a number of times now and is why we finished cutting ebay keys.

 

Also you are most likely cutting the customers key, who then goes to a beer money £15 ebay special software to get the key coded.... So you are helping the sod who is under cutting you, not invested like you have and taking the risk of cutting the crap key?? They will send "their" customer to you, for you to cut it and do you out of the "proper job" We had this numerous times. Garages who we used to do work for using there own recently purchased software but want us to cut the keys and sell the key cheaper?

 

I did have the outlook of £15 for cutting is better with us... but don't see many positives for the potential fall out, and helping others to avoid using us for a full service.

[Simes]

I'm afraid eBay is not going away. It's going to get tougher and let's be honest much of what is on eBay is pretty much what we buy from suppliers repair cases etc.

 

For the record. I NEVER cut blades to be programmed elsewhere. Just the same as I won't sell stick on soles for someone else to repair their own shoes.

[Auto Key Wizard]

If we don't cut it, someone else will.

 

We charge £20 inclusive of VAT to decode and cut customers supplied vehicle keys (no guarantee, no refund)

 

Average of 20 per week, That's £10,000 revenue a year, do the math.

[rapidlocks]

i wonder if the same customers would take a frozen burger and bun into macdonalds and ask them to cook it for them 

[Simes]

i wonder if the same customers would take a frozen burger and bun into macdonalds and ask them to cook it for them

My thoughts exactly

[Auto Key Wizard]

A key cutting service is offered, whether the blank is supplied by the vendor or not is irrelevant.

 

Would you expect a tyre fitter to reject fitting tyres not supplied by them? No, they would make profit in fitting, valves and balancing.

[Andy G7]

A key cutting service is offered, whether the blank is supplied by the vendor or not is irrelevant.

 

Would you expect a tyre fitter to reject fitting tyres not supplied by them? No, they would make profit in fitting, valves and balancing.

 

I like this and fully understand but, if they were to have a blow out on that tyre? Where does the fault lie? Shitty tyre or poor fitting?

 

I had a firm do 4 tyres on my drive and all failed..... their view was corrosion on my alloys. Took it to my usual place (learnt my lesson) and they stated the rims were not cleaned up good enough to accept a new tyre correctly. They cleaned them up and nor problem what so ever afterwards.

 

I am swayed looking at the £ side of this to offer cutting again but still, wary of them jamming keys in ignitions as I mentioned above. No good with customers coming in with a war going on inside? I'm surprised more have not had this?

[grahamparker]

Mitutoyo digital calipers used to measure before starting takes away most jamming issues due to oversized blanks.

 

Even fractions make all the difference.

 

We ALWAYS WARN customers against forcing the key into either the door or ignition that could lead to damage caused by them or the key blank and

not by the cutting of the key ergo there responsibility.

 

As we use a Triax i can guarantee the key is perfectly duplicated every time.

[Peter@CopyCut]

i wonder if the same customers would take a frozen burger and bun into macdonalds and ask them to cook it for them 

 

No, simply because its a large chain and it looks professional. If your shop looks very professional, and you have a policy for everything, people less likely ask you stupid questions.

[Auto Key Wizard]

I like this and fully understand but, if they were to have a blow out on that tyre? Where does the fault lie? Shitty tyre or poor fitting?

I was referring to new tyres and professional tyre fitters