wolves123 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hi chaps, I'm a mobile mechanic branching out into keys. I have some key programing and immobiliser experience but all in main dealers using brand specific diagnostic/programing equipment with keys ordered to key number, easy peasy! I have no clue on the generic cloners and programers really. Anyway, can I clone rolling transponders using zed bull mini? I'm told there is a function for this? Many Thanks, Wolves123. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolves123 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I have a 2001 A class to do, I believe it's a T5 id73 chip? I have a zed bull, silca SBB and in code out code software. Can an A class key be cloned or is it from scratch through obd port via EPROM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 No I don't believe you can. The way I understood it was when you clone the 73 your new takes the place of the one. So now the cloned works but the original one don't. It's also need to 7931 & not T5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidlocks Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 zedbull mini is also a clone of the zedbull , even the original zedbull has fallen behind in the cloning market compared to miraclone , rw4plus , trs5000 etc , the mini being a clone of the zedbull is a clone copy of a very old version of zedbull so its coverage will be limited . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolves123 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Cheers I am in the process of buying more kit, I've not long brought Delphi and launch for my diagnostic side so plus other specialist tools so been drip feeding the key side but do plan to invest more. I take it zed bull and silca will make a chip from scratch through the obd port but will this knock out the original key? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidlocks Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 what kit suits you best is very much decided by what you want or expect it to do , ie if only looking to do spare non remote car keys then if mostly older fixed code stuff then any cheap cloner will do , if wanting to do later stuff , 4d , id46 etc then your needs for a better cloner raise significantly . cloners such as trs5000 evo and rw4 plus give you a very large market coverage for clone non remote keys , cheap china stuff varies in coverage and in quality , but if wanting to do a vast range of makes and models on clone keys only then a proper cloner is a must. cloners though are limited to cloning and currently their still exists alot of makes and model that cant be cloned . so you must then decide on do you venture into obd programming , again the kit you need depends on your coverage expectations and needs . with good kit you dont knock any keys out as such , with some makes you can simply add a key , with other makes and models you must reprogram the existing keys at the same time as the new key , some copy kit can create immobilsers and create problems just as can original kits if used incorrectly . zedbull will code a chip from scratch via obd as long as you have bought the relevent obd leads of which they have opel , ford , vag , renault , daewoo and some fiat i believe , though these obd leads do not work with the clone zedbull you have . as has been mentioned if looking to dabble in keys then zedfull is a good buy as high coverage on both cloning and on obd programming , but it is a token system which raises you key price substantially in some cases by little in others , but its alot of coverage for low cost . No matter what kit you use or opt for , theres more to look at , ie , key stock , chip stock , cutting machines to cut the keys , then of course fitting van out with mains power and with all this new kit and stock . if hoping to set up a key business or even a good residual income on the back of a china clone mini zedbull you will be dissapointed , both in coverage and in the success rate , id look at something with wider coverage and better reliability that will give you a fighting chance . , or look to lower cost residual incomes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolves123 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Thanks for in depth reply. So can I get a cloner that does rolling codes and wider coverage for around the 5-600 pound mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolves123 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I have plenty of different obd leads that should work on my silca. I wonder if launch diagun has any coding facility? I've just brought one and not had a good play with it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidlocks Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 is it the original silca sbb or the china clone sbb , as its not good form to discuss chinese clone kit on a trade forum as technically knock off kit thats ripping someone off , favoured by the beer money cash in hand brigade that undermine and devalue a market , so a bit of a taboo subject. many aftermarket kits have some key programming capability as does main dealer tools , pin codes are the problem with these as they dont have pin extraction software like the mainstream key programmers . all cloners still have plenty of gaps in coverage on crypto chips , such as T12 id40 etc , but good cloners such as silca rw4 and trs5000 evo , miraclone and touchclone have huge market coverage , jma claim 85% i believe , im no mathmetician so cant say if accurate. the best advice i can give on cloner , is yes you can buy a cloner for £500 to £600 ish in china that has a good coverage , but for double that you get a trs5000 evo or rw4 or miraclone that has far more and will be updated on regular basis to keep up to date and offer support , advice , training even unlike the china machines. they all publish their coverage lists on what they can clone , check the jma site , silca site and their distributors sites they all have these coverage lists as downloads for you to compare and buy to what you need. As with all trades , you get what you pay for , you pay cheap you get cheap , its like comparing as has been said a pro toolbox and a B&Q £10 toolbox , though when talking some of this china clone stuff its more like a pro kit and something bought off del boy on the market out of his suit case , you get what you pay for and it lasts as long as it lasts and cheap will never be updated especially from china , where as buy the best it lasts a life time so is a cheaper long term investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchclone Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Thanks for in depth reply. So can I get a cloner that does rolling codes and wider coverage for around the 5-600 pound mark? Unfortunately, no cloner can clone a rolling code key. Even on keys where you can get all the data from them like an ID33 rolling on the old BMWs....as soon as you use either the new key, or the original, then the other one will stop working as it's how the system is designed. One of the things it's important to realise with cloning, is that it's always better for the customer to program new keys into a vehicle, as when a key gets stolen, the customer doesn't need to replace the other identical one.....but we all know that customers don't want to pay more than they have to! If you are planning to stick to cloning, then buy a cloner as they do offer the best and for your buck when it comes to cloning...but if you're going to venture into EEPROM, then I'd strongly recommend buying a multi-functional machine as they typically all come as a cloning only variant and it saves you buying kit twice and learning how another thing works. HTH, lockdecoders 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 around the 5-600 pound mark? That's not enough for what you need, even without any tech support or warranty. The product is not going to be any good as a cloning machine for that money. & you will need some type of Tech support. I don't know about the touch clone but have most of the others & used the other. Now I'm sure some people will tell me how wrong I am but this is my opinion based on using machine's for cloning in a shop with no affiliation to a machine or company. The easiest to use are the JMA & Silca as they are more press & clone machine. But in making them easy to use they loose features & are behind on cloning new chips & tend to play catch up. That is all they do & that is where they end. Where as the AD900, Zedbull & Miraclone will offer you a lot more, they clone more, allow you to program direct to the vehicle with special leads (no diagnostic machine like the Zedbull Full machine). They also allow you to go in to eprom which is the next level after your diagnostic programming work. I wouldn't say they were complicated machine to use but you will need to know a bit more about what you are doing when using any of these compared to the other two machines, this is why its important to have tech support with the product you buy. I feel the AD900 has been falling behind for years & is now well behind the Zedbull & Miraclone in functionality & cloning. That said if you use AD diagnostics it dose offer you Fiat precode which the others can't but that's about it. So we are now down to two machines. Since the launch of the Zedbull Full the standard machine hasn't really done any thing new, again like the others just played catch up & I can't see it being any different. Other then that it is a good all around machine & well worth the money but is not very good at cloning 46 & still can't clone 6F (Ford 80 bit). Because of this & its reliability I now have Miraclone & with question is the best cloning machine I've every had. Most 46 take between 2/3 mins after sniff & I have never failed to clone a key yet. The 4D is about the same & that includes the 6F chips. Second to this but still important is the product support offered by Lock-decoders is much better then my experiences with Mark at Hickleys over the years, I was always waiting for call backs from him or when he didn't know how to fix it he waiting for Istanbul to get to him before my machine was back working again. Since my change every time I need any help with anything on the Miraclone is been sorted straight away & is a more reliable machine. One of the reason its so fast at cloning is the servers that it uses, these are very important to both machines & both need to clone 4d or 46 (without modules). Lock-decoders are well ahead of demand with this & won't suffer from the issues the Zedbull has always trying to catch with demand. This makes a massive difference when using the machine in a shop. My has every weekend & day since brought it. ( I do still have my Zedbulls but they are now at our other shops but they will change when in time comes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidlocks Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Lockdecoders support , back up and after sales is known to be exemplary around the world , and is one of the reasons along with how hard they work that they are successful on numererous continents , always good to see a uk company doing so well. silca , jma , miraclone , touchclone are way ahead on cloning , when i buy a new cloner this year it is one of these 3 il go with , miraclone is the only one of the 3 ive not used yet , i must rectify this soon. lockdecoders and Neal Southern 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchclone Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 The 4D is about the same & that includes the 6F chips. Is that all 6F chips though? Or just the 6F chips configured as the standard 40bit? If the former, what do they clone onto? I was under the impression that nothing could clone a genuine 80bit (or 128bit) transponder yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockdecoders Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 It is 6E that is 80 bit and nobody can copy as it is so difficult to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auto Key Wizard Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 DST+ 6E is also found in Iveco, it has unique coding. lockdecoders 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockdecoders Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 yup 4d62 and 80 bit. Horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 When I said 6F (80 bit) I was talking about the Texas W1 Carbon 4D-63 80 bit replacement of the 40 bit chip & ID on the screen as a 6F. I definitely cloned the Ford Tansit 2007> Blue Transit Remote (AKRM100) which reads as a 6F. I have also cloned some of the new flip style keys but don't know years or models as it wasn't relevant at the time, so I can't say exactly what it does but like stated it hasn't fail once & I had it for nearly two year now. When I read these keys on the Zedbull, the screen reads it as ford 6F but without WR so can't be cloned on the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now