multi lock key help please LEEDS

[Guest Klazykobbler]

Hi all

 

holiday maker in me shop today asking about duplicating a multi lock key. unfortunately i cant help em.

 

they live in leeds they dont have the card with the coded info on it so it would need to be cut/coded from the key they have if thats possible.

 

pms please

 

thanks

 

klazy

[discodave]

you can use someone else if you want but you can also buy some of the blanks from some suppliers and just cut them on your laser machine, you dont need the 2 cutters that all the suppliers tell you you have to buy either.

 

or

 

buy an easy entry machine and copy whatever key that comes into your shop, once you own one of these you can cut anything and there are no security procedures at all that one will piss the locksmiths off

[Growster]

Hello Klazy,

 

whether you may or may not cut the particular Mul-T-Lock key depends on the 2 or 3 digits on the stem.

 

06, for example indicates a "Classic" key, which has lost its patent. Often, Mul-T-Lock agents will (just my experience) still not want to cut this key, but non-Mul-T-Lock agents with the right blanks and machine will do this key without a problem.

 

Garrison is open to anyone to copy.

 

If anyone has it, I'd be interested in a little list of these numbers on the Mul-T-Lock key stems.

[Mick Friend]

Discodave, I hope you were joking, breaching a copyright key or a patent key may cost you your shop, Mul-T-Lok defend their patents and have been awarded sums of money in damages, I know because I went to court as their expert witness. There is now a design right as well. I am currently trying to get some legal words on all these.

When a key is out of patent like some of the older stuff no problem, but forging a key on a copy machine may come back and bit your bum especially as you have no proof that key is theirs and not to another property they are arranging a robbery at.

Forensics are now at a good stage with experts (not me) being able to say it was this or that type of machine.

[discodave]

you cant breach a patent if you can buy the blank. you said that sorry,

 

easy entry machines are copying the restricted keys and just changing 3 things on them.

 

there are now no keys that you cannot copy and there is nothing multilock can do about it.

 

this is why ankerslot are putting magnets into the key or companies are starting to put electronics into the keys to get around this problem multilock will come up with something but all there previous patents are useless if the easy entry can copy it, although they need to be a bit better than how they are now because some people who have these machines are having some problems with them

 

even the latest evva key is affected by this as the easyenrtry can copy this too

[Growster]

you cant breach a patent if you can buy the blank. you said that sorry,

 

That's a bit like saying: Because piratebay offers a song or a movie for download, that song cannot be copyrighted. Because these stolen goods are for a sale at the local flea market, it is legal for me to buy and use them.

 

But Mul-T-Lock are forcing their agents to treat ex-patented keys, as if they were still copy-protected. And they seem heavy-handed, when they sniff out rule-breakers. That, to me, is a bit over the top.

[Craig Gardner]

Discodave, I hope you were joking, breaching a copyright key or a patent key may cost you your shop, Mul-T-Lok defend their patents and have been awarded sums of money in damages, I know because I went to court as their expert witness. There is now a design right as well. I am currently trying to get some legal words on all these.

When a key is out of patent like some of the older stuff no problem, but forging a key on a copy machine may come back and bit your bum especially as you have no proof that key is theirs and not to another property they are arranging a robbery at.

Forensics are now at a good stage with experts (not me) being able to say it was this or that type of machine.

 

When i was doing some research on the easy entrie machine before i decided to buy it or not i was told.their is two software versions available for the machine one which enables the machine to scan the the key then put in a blank and it will mill out the profile exactly as it scanned it then you just cut the key as normal on your cylinder machine.however if you do this on restricted blanks you will end up in trouble.or you could have another software version which is the one mainly used in the uk that will scan the key and then make a few changes to the profile but still allowing it to enter the lock ie in a key with a lot of fluting close together it would mill two flutes into one like the union master keys. this way you would not be in breach of any copyright as the key you cut is different but it will still go into the lock and work fine.i beleive all the patons were on the key profile and shape but now this can be overcome easily.

 

Craig

[Mick Friend]

I think I would have said 'If you can legally buy the blank' and I agree if its out of patent its out of patent, there is nothing for them to go for, BUT there are design right keys now on the market with legal backing - I have to say I dont care as I dont cut keys - but the penalties are high, If you easientri a key and there is loss you could be held liable for duplicating what you know to be a secure key.

watch the press for breaches of copyright now, in all areas of trading not just keys.

I know of 3 market traders 1 in Spain and two here who have had all their stock of DVD's and recording equipment and money in their houses seized - In spain no recourse to the court, taken and smashed up.

I know of one wharehouse raided and thousands of pounds worth of Chineas imports seized.

When times are hard they start looking at their profit lines MTL are very big and their lawyers are paid more than you earn - Good Luck

[discodave]

yep im sure they earn more than me too, you dont have to remind me

 

and im sure that all future keys that now get released are going to get round this easy entry machine

but all the previous ones are fair game, even though thats wrong

 

this is just generating more money for the big boys and harming the little ones as normal

[Guest Klazykobbler]

***KIN'EL!

 

all i want to know is if someone can help out a customer in leeds! didnt want to start a war.

 

cheers

 

Klazy

[grahamparker]

I have been led to believe unless you copy both the blank and cylinder then you are in a breach,but just the key on its own and you enter a very grey area.I now of two cases one involving an evva dps and another with an ankerslot section.Both companies shouted a lot but neither where big enough to take the case to court as the conclusion is not guaranteed.Morally it is wrong but not everyone obeys the same rules.I personally would never copy any one elses restricted sections even though i own an easy entrie machine.

[Mark Davis]

Klazy, your customer is going to need to find there local Mul-t-lock dealer as they don't have a card to send to anyone and you don't have a clue what section the key is on.

[hakeemz]

 

When i was doing some research on the easy entrie machine before i decided to buy it or not i was told.their is two software versions available for the machine one which enables the machine to scan the the key then put in a blank and it will mill out the profile exactly as it scanned it then you just cut the key as normal on your cylinder machine.however if you do this on restricted blanks you will end up in trouble.or you could have another software version which is the one mainly used in the uk that will scan the key and then make a few changes to the profile but still allowing it to enter the lock ie in a key with a lot of fluting close together it would mill two flutes into one like the union master keys. this way you would not be in breach of any copyright as the key you cut is different but it will still go into the lock and work fine.i beleive all the patons were on the key profile and shape but now this can be overcome easily.

 

Craig

 

well then did you buy easy entrie or not ???? if yes what do you think now.. if no why not

[key cabin]

Am i missing out on something here, what the hell is an easy entry machine , and where can i get one from?

[hibsjo(SCO)]

http://www.fortresslock.co.uk/trade/index.htm

carry on!

[Kris Polan]

I have used this machine for 4 years. It comes from Poland . Very usefull device.

Regards

Kris

[Growster]

Poland? And I thought it comes from Stuttgart in Germany.

 

Chris from London

[Kris Polan]

Huh, I wonder who was the first

Our "OLA" looks the same - but has 2 buttons (instead 4 like this German's).

In fact machine needs practise to make all key profiles.

Regards

Kris from Warsaw

[grahamparker]

The machine is german and then sold to suppliers in each country.For the uk market it is lenny at fortress lock and safe.The machine has been through several modifications but mine is about 5 years old with 2 buttons.

[Guest Lock N Safe Buddy]

Any numbers on the key Klazy? If I can ID the key I can help you. Just for your info: 05= Classic master section blank (no patent) 06= Classic differ & pass section (no patent) 76=Garrison (no patent) 115=Interactive (patented) 348E=Integrator (patented) MT5 (patented) 08=Classic - EMB own profile (no patent). The Leeds key will probably be the later - there is no profile (08) on the key but it will say EMB & tel no on the plastic top. As Mick says, you are not infringing Patent laws if you cut the listed non-patent protected keys above, BUT MTL do have some legal protection on these profiles SO BEWARE . REMEMBER - The original purchaser of the lock paid extra to stop the unauthorised duplication of their keys. If the owner has changed hands they should replace the lock anyway to prevent the previous owner gaining entry. Graham