Space saving equipment

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Very theraputic as well, stress buster and WOW factor all in the 1 bundle.

The new OXO tins dont do anything for me I'm afraid to say no matter what the current operators and salesfolk say.

[kobblers]

OXO tins

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Encasing everthing in tin boxes, just like my OXOs used to come in.

[keithm]

Hugh, I'm afraid your quote is typical of someone who's never used, and yes, I'm guessing you haven't, but only seen one run, tut tut.

 

All I can say is that the new 'OXO tins' allow much easier use of the outsole machine. They are more reliable, quieter, managable and smaller. There are many repairers now using outsole stitchers who would have run a mile from the 'monsters' of old Some of which were, are, almost completely unmanagable but used because they have no alternatative

 

For instance, there is no clutch on the reconditioned models, therefore, you can operate them like a car throttle, speeding up and slowing down as necessary due to the use of a potentiometer =D> The internals of the stitcher, are of course, the same as the 'old' machines, so therefore, as good as the originals or better due to better engineering of certain aspects of it.

 

If you can afford one it's a great asset to any quality business

[ironplanet uk900]

Have to agree with keith. Mine fits snug against the wall, looks the boll*cks and stitches like a dream.....don't think I need owt else from it

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Hugh, I'm afraid your quote is typical of someone who's never used, and yes, I'm guessing you haven't, but only seen one run, tut tut.

 

Used them a lot Keith, mended them a lot to, having to get my head inside that tin box aint to easy with the size of it (yes my head) Too difficult to get at when something goes wrong, taking the cowling off the head takes ages when you are pushed for time and customers waiting. Yes they look less frightening but I prefer the easy access and quick maintenance features of the old one witha bloody giant motor and clutch youdid not have the problems of potentiometers or reostats as I called them in my electronic days. How many Shop owners can alter the workings of the electronic side of these machines? how many engineers can?

Easy to screw on a Starter motor or change the clutch on the old one.

Nah..I appreciate you have to move forward and onward to make the machines more enviromentally freindly and have more astetic value in todays moder upmarket shops, but better!!!! that's a matter of choice.

[keithm]

A highly predictable post from you Hugh I'm afraid. The area that may, on occasion, need attention is almost fully exposed, you dont't need to lift, remove anything around the head for a needle, awl change and a well kept machine WILL be reliable. The most you'll have to do is lift the top cover to oil the cams occasionally

 

Change starter motors Clutch?

 

I'm afraid you live very much in the past my friend

 

The 'New' version of this machine is a leap forward and I'm not just saying that coz I sell 'em, they sell themselves

 

Keith

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

I'm afraid you live very much in the past my friend

Keith

 

Of course I do Keith, but what sticks im my head about the new ones is getting the sides open around the head. Allen screws at the back and a dissasembly job.

Got frustrated many times just getting access to components, cant say that about the old ones even if they did look 3 times the size they needed to.

 

2 Shop windows next door to each other, one with the old goodyear being operated the other with the new one being operated, bet there would be more watchers stopping at the old goodyear window!!

 

I have operated 4 of the new ones Keith for some continual running time, I can honestly say that in a fast moving enviroment they were slower than a good maintained old one taking everything into account of threading new cops to simple maintenance to operating.

 

Many today would be frightened of the old ones just as some a refrightened of the new TC cutters.

MY personal choice Keith not an engineering fact.

I do think to myself of this though Keith... these machines have been around in our trade for 60 years and more, I lost count trying to add up all the parts in the parts catalouge, thousands not hundreds of parts.

Now the original superb inventors and engineers building something that cant be done today, would they have boxed it in like the new ones even if they had potentiometers. Ease of access ease of use I think they refered to in their blue prints... Not that I ever saw them mind, I aint that bleedin old.

[ironplanet uk900]

50-60 years ago all British manufacturing was over engineered, We were the best in the world. Having used plenty of these machines over the years my opinion is:

 

The old machines were fantastic and well maintained ones stitched like a dream, but they needed alot more maintainence than the newer style does, and alot more room.

You had clutches that could be troublesome, very long leather belts that needed adjusting and changing, wax pots, big troublesome motors that weren't that reliable, I've lost count how many machines I've used with dodgy motors, They are also a health and safety issue nower days with strict guidlines on covered belts. some of these machines came with very little in they way of guards around fast moving parts.

 

The new style machines also stitch like a dream, but need less maintainance, better quality shorter belts, which are totally covered, no clutch to worry about, and modern super reliable more economical motors. They look much smarter in todays customer exposed workshops, and take up far less of your valuable space.

 

My verdict: I love the old style machine, it has character and seems to come alive when you use it...But I wouldn't swap my nice new modern reliable one for your old one.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

My verdict: I love the old style machine, it has character and seems to come alive when you use it...

 

You could not have put it better.

One forgets all the problems when you aint been using them for years. I agree.

 

I was casting my mind back to days when I was operating the old ones not stop for 8 hours with a back up machine ready fixed for when the one I was working on broke down. I cant see todays machine doing that same job at the speed these things went at. ~worked on hundreds but never seen a motor go, though many clutches changed and got it down to about 15 mins without dismantling.

 

The heads would need the same maintenance as they are the same heads renovated and some of the old K & B heads put onto new stands I not sure about.

 

Old Wax Pots full of congealed wax and dust heated by Gas and a days job to clean....Mmmmmm I remember them now

[petercoulson]

you are forgetting the fantastic sound the older machines make, clickety click and with the wax holding everything together. I once went to a customer who had bought and old machine and decided it was far too messy so spent several hours cleaning the head with paraffin. It never worked again because he had released all the play in the levers and rollers and it would have cost a fortune to correct.

[ironplanet uk900]

you are forgetting the fantastic sound the older machines make, clickety click and with the wax holding everything together. I once went to a customer who had bought and old machine and decided it was far too messy so spent several hours cleaning the head with paraffin. It never worked again because he had released all the play in the levers and rollers and it would have cost a fortune to correct.

 

 

Forgot about that added luxury...... I'll stick to me new one

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

I remembered this morning what I did not like about the new ones.

 

It was that blooming giant block at the front below the table. Welt Guide Adjustment, got quite close to smashing it with me~ammer, one was so worn it was useless, one was so tight it could not be moved and as for getting access to the Awl Segment..... forget it as a quick job.

 

Although I would not purchase a new model with a K & B Head nowadays, I did prefer them for the simplicity of the Welt Guide and Thread Lifter. WHB models were OK for the Welt guide as long as the teeth on the control bar was not worn to bad. All down to maintenance, but when it is someone elses machine you just get on with the job in hand.

 

One question for you sales/engineers..If the new ones go as fast as the old ones why do they no longer have shock absorbers. Is it because the vibration is spread over a greater area or what?

[keithm]

The speed on the new machines can be altered to suit taste and , or, experienc,via the inverter. We have in fact slowed ours down, not that most would notice, as most users have less problems when stitching slightly slower.

 

Wax! Yeah, I remember those days, got everywhere. Pete's mention of the old machine covered in it and it not stitching once cleaned is oh so typical

[petercoulson]

One question for you sales/engineers..If the new ones go as fast as the old ones why do they no longer have shock absorbers. Is it because the vibration is spread over a greater area or what?

 

vibration? shock absorbers? that explains the broken teeth and visits to the dentist. as keith mentiones they can be set to a slower top speed which is what we do but you can go full pelt. this does leave some vibration as the newer ones do not have the weight of the cast bases but its not that bad. we can also set the machines on anti vibration dampers, same as the finishers etc

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Thanks for that Peter, but it also tells me that they are not going as fast, thanks

[petercoulson]

yep

 

but then most today would die if they went full pelt, 1 man 1 stitcher in a co-op factory and no problem

[ironplanet uk900]

Who needs it to go 100 MPH, If owt goes wrong when your at full pelt it just caurses even more damage.........

 

What would have been a broken needle turns out to be a new table broken gears, broken needle guide etc etc etc why the big rush !!!!!!!

[elfman]

i much prefer i older machines for one reason that be they were simple to use and maintain my view has allways been that the more sophisticated and technical ou make something the more that can go wrong with it

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

I have found over the years that the most problems on Goodyears are caused by Operator usage in that they do not know how to use the machine efficiantly and competently.

My machines were always well serviced every week and operated at full speed, thats also how I taught others.

By setting the machine to do the work there is very little input needed from the operator, yet so often I see folk grasping onto the shoe like grim death and trying to push the shoe around.(this is where most broken parts come from not speed, in my experience anyway)

 

Just as an example the machine that I used 45 years ago still gets used at full speed by the new crew and my bet would be that it is far more user freindly than many of the new ones issued over the last 10 years.

 

You have to move with the times though if you are in a bright new shopping area, the machines that I prefer would look out of place and antiquated.

[Lee]

of course full speed can vary considerably from machine to machine. my old outsoler was slower flat out than my current one, going slowly!

 

I agree with planet that if you run them to fast & get a problem on the way round the damage can be catastrophic (as peter will tell you when he delivered my nice shinny new outsoler! that through inexperience I raced round a shoe & smashed to pieces!)

 

running any machine is like running an engine to its optimum, it involves good servicing & driver control. over revving & under caring will shorten the milage you will achieve from it.

 

Lee

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Quite right Lee but I'm not in the habit of undercaring, quite the opposite. Take care of the machines both in use and maintenence and the machines will rarely have catastrophic damage.

 

What is catastrophic damage, Needle Guide/Needle Segment/Awl Guide/Awl Segment/Looper/Lifter/Table, all common parts to damage, 20 mins max to replace the lot and set to stitch, providing of course you are used to assembling these parts on a regular basis as part of general maintenance.

 

These parts by the way were always carried as spares, I could not be 1 week without a goodyear awaiting parts delivery.

Needle Guides were carried by the dozen as you may need this quantity to get a good alignment with the clamp. Guide pins/ guide scres were also get by the half dozen. Scrounged and removed from machines long long ago.

[keithm]

i much prefer i older machines for one reason that be they were simple to use and maintain my view has allways been that the more sophisticated and technical ou make something the more that can go wrong with it

 

The new refurbished machines are no more 'complicated' than the 'old' ones other than they have had some of their parts replaced with more modern ones, ie, clutch for motor. Please don't confuse electronic with complicated. Generally, you never need to touch the electronics, ever !!