Do you need real help or just going through the motions help

[ironplanet uk900]

A point to add to that UK.

Out of all the members of cutting edge how many are members on here and is Martyn Harvey a member on here?

If he (Martyn Harvey) is a member alls well at least he is watching.......if hes not hes an ....... arrogant man and would need to do some selling to me this year for renewing my membership!

carry on!

 

 

Jo, That is a point I meant to cover....I don't believe he is a member. Which says a lot about his commitment to the trade. They are a Joke.

[Lee]

In my opinion Martyns one of the biggest assets the MSA has, he's a very courteous, Polite & all round nice chap.

Sadly he's unwell at the moment & won't be able to defend himself or the MSA at present, however other MSA committee members are forum members & I'm sure in due course they will take on board, or maybe answer the comments made.

 

Out of all the members of cutting edge how many are members on here

 

The entire committee & many of the suppliers (cutting edge members) are forum members & should not me confused with the MSA, cuttingedge do a sterling job in producing the trade magazine, the show & occasionally get it right with promotions for our shops like the posters & the cycling challenge.

You wouldn't believe the amount of time the members put into the various aspects of what they do, but the bench mark for this time is the trade magazine, I bet there are few industries producing such a class publication & thats cuttingedge through & though.

 

Cutting edge (from its members, not directly) support the forum with sponsorship & have even propped the MSA up at times.

 

If Martin could have been full time on the association I am sure his drive would have moved it forward further than his existing monumental efforts.

 

My disappointment is the forum is an amateur affair, we the members put in as much time as our work commitments allow, I only wish I could work on it full time! the MSA has paid employee's yet why would you spend your hard earned cash with them when there's such a credible alternative in the federation of small business's for the same money, or this "Free" alternative for more trade orientated information? perhaps the MSA could answer that for us...........

 

Lee

[kobblers]

 

My disappointment is the forum is an amateur affair,

 

Lee

 

i couldn't disagree more lee

 

there's nothing amateur about this forum, how can having the largest suppliers and service people as sponsors of this forum as well as timpson mean it's an amateur affair? i'm sure if the aforementioned thought so then they wouldn't be sponsoring it.

 

add to that the best tradespeople in our industry, key cutters, cobblers and engravers alike and hopefully you will see why i disagree.

 

don't put yerself down lee you've done a remarkable job keeping this forum going for as long as you have and i'm positive it'll be here for many years as you lack the arrogance which generally leads to the downfall of creation such as this.

 

rick.

[ironplanet uk900]

=D> Well said Rick =D>

 

Amature my ass

 

You don't half talk some rubbish at times Lee

[Lee]

Sorry that was not to take anything away from the members, or sponsors. the point was that NO ONE works full time on it, I haven't paid a company or person to produce it.

 

It's published using open source programs & my medioca knowledge of the internet. I only wish I had the resources & income that the MSA has, doesn't mean I would know what to do with it, but it would be nice!

 

Lee

 

(note also that my new found arrogance equates to medioca knowledge & not limited knowledge as I've said before \:D/ )

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

The majority of forums that I visit on a regular basis are non professional and are better by far than the ones funded as a commercial operation. They are not as open and the members do not share knowledge in the depth that is done on here.

 

Amatuer........ Not me, I aint no ammer~chewer, though I am a lot better now than when I was at my best

[kobblers]

Amatuer........ Not me, I aint no ammer~chewer, though I am a lot better now than when I was at my best

 

even wi' yer falsies?

 

what hugh said too

[keithm]

Something to bare in mind with regards to the MSA. Martyn Harvey should not be held solely responsible for any failings that they may have. Like 'Cutting Edge', it is run by a committee and decisions on it's future are decided by that means.

 

He, in my humble opinion, has done a commendable job with a 'poison chalice', which I for one, would have never taken on. Martyn came from a retail background and had little idea about our trade. When he joined, less than one year ago, the MSA was on it's knees. Dropping membership, little direction, no money and a failing association. Martyn was tasked with turning it around.

 

Hopefully, in Martyn's absense and while he's recovering, one of the committee members could come on here and answer a few of your questions, after all, they are members

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Could come on...........!!!!!!

Why has their presence not been felt before, have they just been luking in the background stealing ideas?

[Lee]

Can someone tell me..

 

1, What they do.

 

2, what they offer.

 

3, Is it a profit making association.

 

4, Is it for the good of the trade, or the organisers...If anything is ever organised.

 

5, Would the independant have noticed if they had locked the door 5 years ago... I wouldn't !!

planet uk900

 

thought I'd answer these 5 questions from the forum point of view, just to set the record.

1. offer help, support & information to the shoe repair industry - instantly!

2. We offer a vast service using modern technology, including a forum, chat room, downloads, news articles, tutorials, blogs & even a for sale section, with the record standing at 3 minutes from ad to sale!

3. Ideally & maybe just maybe eventually yes! but in its first 3 years the banners have "sponsored" the site on a break even basis, the concept of the site was to give something back to the industry that had faired so well for me. The forum will always remain a free service to the members.

4. The only thing that makes a site like this one successful is members & content, no members no content. its good for the trade because the trade have made it from scratch, no credit can be given to any one individual for the content, yes its "good" for the trade. I have thrived on the site myself, it has given me a new lease of life on the industry so its been good for me too!

5. I'd turn this one around & say would YOU notice if I closed the virtual folder? everything in life is replaceable, after a few months something else would come along. IF & when I ever finish the "project" rather than being noticed I'd rather the forum was remembered for what it achieved, not what it didn't.

 

Most things have a shelf life, there's no point flogging a dead horse, I originally said if the forum lasted three years I'd be happy. I now envisage at least a decade, but have its day the forum will.

Eventually content will run dry, technology will move on & the forum will rest. However I am realistic about this & when the time is right we will throw a party & rip up the files safe in the knowledge, between us we changed the industry.

 

Lee

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

I think you may have posted an answer to Planets question about the MSA. but answered with this forums benefits, or that is what I read into it. Good points though and could go as a forerunner/header to the forum

[Lee]

I know these where directed at the MSA, but they made me think out loud.

 

Lee

[kobblers]

i'd certainly notice if the forum went i think it's given a lot of people a new lease of life on here as well as a new way of thinking

 

 

well put Lee.

rick.

[k4mrc]

i think back when it was called "society of master shoe repairers" it was better.

changing the name in my mind took away any credibilty that being a member gave us,

on all my business cards i had "member of - society of master shoe repairers"

which to me anyway, gave me a large shoe repair back-up with a gaureentee of something tangible - the "msa" to me says nothing!

cards - i get better rates thru "FSB" free banking, high savings accounts, health insurance. the list can go on and on!

all these offers make it worthwhile to be a member, i dont use many, but to me our trade needs a good club to join, perhaps this forum should make its own club, i'm sure that if it were investigated this forum could get better c/card rates for its members! i am not joking either!

[kobblers]

some good advice there k4mrc, leave that one with me as my ju jitsu partner is an insurance advisor so i'll ask her tonight to see if her firm can shop around to see what they can come up with. (subject to lee's approval of course )

 

rick.

[Lee]

THIS IS A LONG POST, BUT PLEASE READ IT ALL!

 

to me our trade needs a good club to join, perhaps this forum should make its own club, i'm sure that if it were investigated this forum could get better c/card rates for its members! i am not joking either!

 

i'll ask her tonight to see if her firm can shop around to see what they can come up with. (subject to lee's approval of course )

 

Before we get carried away! Here’s the reason in its current form the forum cannot become a dedicated “trade” association.

 

PROFIT

A “true” association is simply beyond the time, commitment & investment I can give, this has to be set up by a network of people, Because we still maintain a mindset that associations should not be money making ventures, it is difficult to imagine a trade association as a for-profit representative body of a particular trade.

 

OBJECTIVES

Unless your primary reason for creating a trade association is to lobby issues in London, the primary association's principal objective should more or less focus on information sharing (as the forum already does successfully).

 

BEYOND MEMBERSHIP

Since most associations get started with low membership fees, usually in the £80 to £100 bracket. Many associations are lucky to break even on membership dues alone. To guarantee its healthy existence, its financial foundations should expand beyond being exclusively dependent on membership fees. Although most trade associations start off with a newsletter, it is in an ideal position to organise conventions & shows which can be a prime money maker for the association. Both these revenue outlets are catered for with the Cutting Edge group, very successfully & it would be a full time task to improve on the trades current magazine & show.

 

Where a new trade association is being established the initiative should be taken by a group of companies, ideally being representative of the industry and including the largest companies in the sector. An association that is seen to represent either a single company or a group of maverick companies is unlikely to achieve anything other than short term publicity in the trade press. The companies should form a steering committee and elect a chairman and secretary of it. This committee can become the initial executive committee of the association until elections can be held.

 

The costs incurred in establishing a trade association should be shared between the members of a steering committee. One large company may well be willing to fund the start up costs but the association should not be seen to be a creature of one of the founding members. The members of the steering committee should therefore each make a modest contribution, perhaps of equal size, or if the members are of widely differing sizes then with some appropriate differentiation. The amount raised initially should be sufficient to cover any printing and distribution costs and modest promotional material, together with paid-for consultancy and secretariat support, but in no circumstances payment to members of the steering committee for their time. Depending on circumstances the start up costs can sometimes be recovered through an entry fee into the new association.

 

Now here’s the crunch & the focus of this site for me, if a “new” association could get every member of the MSA to join & increase it to say 260 in the first year, with a revenue of £100 per member you could expect it to perhaps gross £26K in its first year. This with costs would not be enough to survive on & would leave little in the pot to progress a newly formed group at any pace. This is basically what happened to the SoMSR/MSA it paid Trevor’s wages & little else.

 

I spend many an hour on the forum & this year have put on hold plans for our own competition because I have had to use spare time on the cycling challenge web site, My time is stretched to the limit I can give, before it would affect my business & income.

 

FOCUS

I would not rule out forming a new association, My focus has always been & still remains (at present) to give the industry FREE help, support & information, WE continue to build our relationship with the industries suppliers which will help move the industry forward into the future.

 

The MSA may be considering “copying” the forums lead, but I have no intention of duplicating the MSA, Ill leave that to them!

I would still advice those looking for deals as mentioned through out this topic to join the FSB.

 

In the mean time we should continue to concentrate on being the best at what we are doing. Keep focused on what WE are really all about, we are still a relatively young trade body, spread strong roots & we will grow a bloody great tree

 

Lee

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Hear hear, stick to the known format and leave organisations to organise.

[kobblers]

fair dos guv'

 

she didn't turn up to train anyway

 

 

rick.

[ironplanet uk900]

Well said Lee. what a bloody credit to this forum you really are, level headed with your feet firmly on the floor, But with a quiet ambition to grow at a sensible rate.

It would be easy to walk around with your chest out, beating a drum with what you have achieved in such a small time. But you always remain dignified at all times. You have my utmost respect.

 

Keep up the excellent work my friend.