Very Small Stiletto Pin

[alxfer]

Had 2 pair of Marks and Spencer ladies shoes in today for re-heel.

When I got the pins out, I found that the pu tops with 101 pins would not fit.

Had no option but to work the heels and put .115 tubes in.

Are there pu tops with pins less than .101 available??

Are there pins less than .101 available?

[Michael]

I had a pair of these last week.

 

I just thinned down and squared off a .120 pin and it was fine,a lot easier than drilling the whole heel out

[Guest lee.]

These were in fact probably .101 pins , Odell have had a problem with slightly over size pins , if memory serves me right these were black in colour , all NEW stock should be with the silver coloured pin , we too had the same problem , but sice ditching our original stock and replacing with new we have not had a problem .

Lots of pin Variations coming through the door at the moment , whilst .120 is still dominant size we are seeing more and more .125 pins every week , mainly larger sizes 13mm and upwards , sasly no suppliers appear to have stocks on any .125 Pu tops , except 9/16 xl , so we are having to resort to using the good old flexi inserts again .

[ironplanet uk900]

You can get 090 pins.

[Bren]

thin down a .115 pin. You can hand file the top to ensure a snug fit. Practice makes perfect but make sure you can get 'em (if PU's) out again because they'll be back next week.

 

As smmulti said, flexi tubes rule...

[ironplanet uk900]

thin down a .115 pin. You can hand file the top to ensure a snug fit. Practice makes perfect but make sure you can get 'em (if PU's) out again because they'll be back next week.

 

As smmulti said, flexi tubes rule...

 

Just buy the proper pins for the job And how does putting flexi tubes in help, when you haven't got attaching pins small enough.

 

I wouldn't recommend anyone to use flexi tubes, only if all else fails.

[Bren]

thin down a .115 pin. You can hand file the top to ensure a snug fit. Practice makes perfect but make sure you can get 'em (if PU's) out again because they'll be back next week.

 

As smmulti said, flexi tubes rule...

 

Just buy the proper pins for the job And how does putting flexi tubes in help, when you haven't got attaching pins small enough.

 

I wouldn't recommend anyone to use flexi tubes, only if all else fails.

 

I don't have PU's with a .090 pin (but would be interested to know where you can get them)

 

And the flexi-tubes are for solving the problem of not getting .125 PU's that 'smmulti' has.

[ironplanet uk900]

thin down a .115 pin. You can hand file the top to ensure a snug fit. Practice makes perfect but make sure you can get 'em (if PU's) out again because they'll be back next week.

 

As smmulti said' date=' flexi tubes rule...[/quote']

 

Just buy the proper pins for the job And how does putting flexi tubes in help, when you haven't got attaching pins small enough.

 

I wouldn't recommend anyone to use flexi tubes, only if all else fails.

 

I don't have PU's with a .090 pin (but would be interested to know where you can get them)

 

Buy .090 pins and make up your own

 

And the flexi-tubes are for solving the problem of not getting .125 PU's that 'smmulti' has.

 

Run that by me again

[Bren]

make my own PU's ???

 

flexi tube + .120 PU fits .125 tube nicely.

 

A poster named 'smmultiservices' can't get .125 PU's and resorts to this method (as above)

 

Phew, time for a pint!

[ironplanet uk900]

make my own PU's ???

 

Yeah, make your own. 0.90 pin, vaulkalon sheeting, hole punch & electric pliers.

 

flexi tube + .120 PU fits .125 tube nicely.

 

No it don't fit nicely, its too thick, risking splitting the heel.

 

 

125 pin

 

 

120 pin with sleeve

 

A poster named 'smmultiservices' can't get .125 PU's and resorts to this method (as above)

 

I've never had a problem getting 125 pins, call Charles Birch or any shoe repair wholesalers.

Trying to bodge instead of using the correct materials makes you a bad repairer.

 

Phew, time for a pint!

 

Try Tea, you may be able to think clearly

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Read that post several times

Planet but cant understand the tie up with the pins and the reading on the vernier gauge.

For instance a 120 pin within a sleeve is showing as 100.65 and it looks like it is showing as MM. 125 pin is actually .125 imperial. (or was when I was a young cadet in the Cobbler Forces).

Can you put me on the right path please.

125 pin on its own is showing 99.79mm. Me no understand (it's not hard I'm an old bloke).

[ironplanet uk900]

read it again, if the penny don't drop I'll explain in laymans

[earlsdoncobbler]

nice to see i`am not the only repairer to have a digital vernier in the shop very useful

[Auto Key Wizard]

These narrower tubes can be found fitted to Nine-West & New Look footwear,

PU tops with silver .101 pins & Phillips .101 cheese head attaching pins for Metaltops are fine for both of these brands.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

read it again, if the penny don't drop I'll explain in laymans

 

Nah, spotted 1 mistake of mine but the penny still aint dropped.

The answer is probably staring me in the face and I'm going to kick my own arse when you tell me, but go ahead please.

[Bren]

Whenever i've used the .120pin and flexi tube method the heel has never split.

Are you making your PU's so the pin head is showing (and therefore being walked on immediately) If so it sort of defies the point of fitting rubber if the customer doesn't like the noise.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

The customer is getting rubber Bren no matter how it is fixed.

A lot of complaints of steel come from the damage they cause not just the noise.

If you sink the pin head into the sub layer of Vulkalon, the top-piece will pop off as this layer is softer.

As long as the head does not protrude it is OK.

Another point tha PlanetUK900 mentions is Electric Pliers, How and in what circumstances do you need to use them?

[ironplanet uk900]

The customer is getting rubber Bren no matter how it is fixed.

A lot of complaints of steel come from the damage they cause not just the noise.

If you sink the pin head into the sub layer of Vulkalon, the top-piece will pop off as this layer is softer.

As long as the head does not protrude it is OK.

Another point tha PlanetUK900 mentions is Electric Pliers, How and in what circumstances do you need to use them?

 

I'm happy to show you how I improvise.

 

How would you do it !!! Hugh. As its easy the critisise others after they've tried to explain.

I'll prepare a little tutorial in response Then I'll drive the bus outa this thread

[ironplanet uk900]

Fares PLEASE

[Guest lee.]

Topic seems to have gone a little off track , my original comment regarding what appeared to be a smaller pin size than a .101 related to the fact that if you are still using the Phillips/Odell pu tops with the Black pin you may find that these are a fraction too big , Odell had been supplied with slightly oversize pins , thai has now been rectified and all new stock of .101 Pu's have the correct size Silver pin .

My comment regarding the other end of the scale on larger pins was an observation of more .125 Tubed heels coming in for repair , a few from Tesco under the Fred & Florence Brand , and a few independent labelled shoes mainly originating from India.

Having tried several times , without any luck ,to order .125 Pu tops from our main supplier in Leeds , and another in Bristol , we are now using .120 pin Pu's with a Flexi tube insert . Should anyone want to resort back to Drilled and pinned Vulkallon tops it is worth remembering that not only do you need to drill a countersunk hole , but you also need to use a countersunk pin as well , otherwise toppiece will just flip off .

Pinned Vulk tops were very popular 25 yrs ago , we used to manufacture them by the Thousands , solely for the Repair trade , and the odd few Dancewear Makers , popularity declined with the improved compounds used to make Pu tops , and due to the fact that the Vulk top tended to wear quicker than the pin leaving a protruding Steel pin.

Some may also remember Topy having a go at making a Vulk top with a Nylon pin , shortlived in the UK , but popular on the Continent , Nylon pin was prone to shearing off resulting in a lost heel .

Hope this helps , as readers and subsequent posters seem to have failed to get the thread of what i initially wrote.

And just for the record , the usefull little "Flexi Tubes" originally started life as a "Spindles" for the metal wheels in Filing Cabinet Draws, a nice little man called Henri used to make them in a small workshop on the outskirts of Paris . Use to bring back several boxes when we were exhibiting at the Semane de Couer Footwear Show in Paris every September , Customs officials always took some convincing as to what they were to be used for .

[ironplanet uk900]

Good post that smulti, I did get the jist first time round, but things tend to go a bit off the original topic the longer the post gets

 

I personally don't like flexi tubes, prefer to use the right sized pin whenever possible.

I also make up my own top piece's for 101 and 0.90 pins. my missus has a couple of pairs of boots with 101 tubes, I find my method works well, they'll never last that long though, as they are only 3/8.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

How would you do it !!! Hugh. As its easy the critisise others after they've tried to explain.

I'll prepare a little tutorial in response Then I'll drive the bus outa this thread

 

Not having access to equipment I have to do it verbally.

!st I would have an Iron last drilled with a hole slightly larger than the thickest pin size. The hole would be in the seat area and go right through the last for "Lifetime" Top-pieces.

I would then drill a hole through the vulkalon top just slightly larger than the pin size.

Then I would position top piece over hole and whack in the pin. if the hole has been drilled to correct size the pin head sinks level with the top piece.

Please bear in mind that this is from memory as it is over 30 years since I had to do this. (but I never used Elec Pliers and cant fathom out how you would need them).

[Guest lee.]

We always aim to use the RIGHT size pin on ALL our repairs , seen to many jobs come in by other Repairers who have split Heels by whacking in the wrong size pin and then being unable to rectify there mistake having sprained the tube. Thats why we Keep Pu tops in .101, .115 ,.120 and .125 when we can get them .

We also hold Pins for Metal tops in .101,.115,.120,and .125 "cheesehead" , and .115 and .125 in Countersunk , perhaps we are more lucky than most as we have big stocks remaining from our Manufacturing days, Flexi tubes are a last resort .

Nice idea from Hugh , although we have a nice Jig abd countersunk bits should we need to drill and pin any Vulk tops , try to avoid this now as Vulk tops are not what they once were.

Original Vulkallon ( a trade name owned by "Bayer" a large Polymer producer) was cast ( or Poured) into sheets ,using Pu with a much higher melting point than the current range of Resin Backed Pu availiable today ( unless you use Topy), this was much harder than todays product and Held the pins better , especially if it was Leather Backed.

Todays product is Injection Moulded , either directly onto the resin , or as a slab with the backer then glued on , this grade Pu is not as dense and has a much lower melting point , hence the fact that it melts when you trim it ( and burns and sticks to your fingers ) instead of coming off nice and clean with the trimmings have more of a dusty consistency.

From a wear point of view you are much better to use a Straight Pu Toppiece giving a full 5.5mm of wear instead of 4mm and then straight onto the backer.

Back in the days when Hugh was a boy and heel blocks were made from wood , repairers were not confident when using the new "plastic" materials that were coming onto the market , mainly because they had trouble in sticking them ( having to use such things as S10 primer etc) , Danite Atlas and the like were the kings of smaller toppieces then . However to overcome this Bayer developed a new material "Vulkallon" which was basically a Pu ( plastic) material that was bonded to either Leather or Resin Rubber , both materials which repairers had confidence in getting a good bond with .

[Bren]

Trying to bodge instead of using the correct materials makes you a bad repairer.

 

Phew, time for a pint!

 

Try Tea, you may be able to think clearly

 

Been thinking about this post and am a little annoyed. Because i don't use your method makes me a 'bad repairer' does it? Well iv'e not split a heel for ten years and have several regular customers who have no problem with my method.

I've used the 'make your own' method in the past and on heels smaller than 3/8 it's rubbish. The customer is NOT getting what they want as they'll be walkling on a metal pin almost immediately. It also looks shit and is not time/cost effective.

If the PU is on and can be removed for re-repair easily, the heel isn't split and the customer is happy how can the job be 'a bodge'?

 

As for the 'try tea' comment, i presume all those little yellow things means you're joking rarther than being patronising!!

[hibsjo(SCO)]

Why is it always my way or its wrong?

I too have used the pin thru the rubber top piece for "challenging" jobs its effective and thats all i can say about it.

Correct pins sizes? whats that all about?

You wouldnt put a 125 pin into a 115 but you would grind the bugger down to fit if thats all you had!

OR you would use the flexitubes/staples if it was the other way.

this trade has learnt to adapt, overcome and facilitate all thats been thrown at it in the 24 years Ive been involved so for anyone to say that someone elses methods are wrong are the ones who are wrong.

carry on!