wages

[Guest richard]

hi wondered what your thoughts were on how much to pay staff

i'm looking for staff at moment and interviewed 2 timpson guys who reckon they manage t's shops on there own but paid only £255 basic for 5 days - hence have to work 6 days and seem fed up with it.,.,

only it seems crap wages for a large company or these guys aint worth there salt! i am paying £300 basic for 5 days for a good all rounder.,.,

[Guest blank]

have been told thats the basic they pay - but something about points for skills that they do, shoes keys watch rep engraving etc, but the basic pay £255 - is terrible no wonder they want to leave, we have had the same people 't' employees ringing month in and out asking if we have any vacancies.,.,

[derek]

timpson don't pay great wages cause they think that they have asuper dooper bonus scheme,the timpson guys could be good it's just their standard wage,why not get them in for a days trial?

[derek]

dont know about apoor pay for a bad area from what i hear londons a nightmare 4 t's due to lack of staff

[ironplanet uk900]

Far too many whizz kids and not enough with the skills of the likes of (dare I say it. Better bite my tongue) uk900. There I've said it, urrrrgh I've got a bad taste in me mouth, better go and wash it out with salt

 

Cheques in the post

 

Seriously though, I agree with the rest of that post. When I worked for sketchleys shoe repairs, they were chucking city & guilds certificates round like they were going out of fashion. and the exam was a joke.

there were employees with city & guilds certificates in there units. and there work was incredably bad.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

2 shay as the saying goes.

there has always been an element of bad repairs for as long as I can remember but this last couple of years have seen the move toward the most diabolical standards that I have ever seen, what is worrying is that it is going to get worse.

 

I put it down to too much being expected of folk with all the different services, you can only be as profficiant as time allows. There are the exceptions of course who strive to be the best at whatever they do and to pass their skils onto others who show an interest. So many of todays new kids on the block have not got an interest in anything remotely connected with anything that has the word "work" in it. Again there is the exception,

Saw 1 youngish fellow couple of weeks ago that I would stake a small fortune on him having several shops within 10 years and he had only been repairing for 4 months.

[james timpson]

as of last week we had 162 people on waiting lists wanting to work for us and 12 vacancies! our average manager earns in total just over 20k. there are also 26 days holiday and a final salary pension scheme. there are employees who we are happy to look elsewhere. last year only 6 staff left that i was disappointed. iope this helps . james

[ironplanet uk900]

James, were the 162 people on the waiting list qualified or wanting to join the industry and prepared to be trained. I ask because I often hear that there isn't anybody coming into the trade anymore.

And the people who have left (which is an incredably small amount) did they leave the trade altogether.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Nice to see an imput from the Timpson organisation thowing a different light upon the subject.

On reflection I have to ask myself this, "were we really any better at repairing shoes years ago".

I can remember many instances of diabolical repairs in the 50s 60s & 70s, I can vividly remember pulling bagged shoes off shelves in an annual clean out of unclamed repairs and thinking "did I repair those ""must do better next time".

There are always going to be the Best, the Average, the Scape throughers and the Butchers.

 

If you could now see, some of the Riveted Gents Half Soles, riveted because Stitchers were too expencive, Scoured because using a trimmer big enough would shake the machine to bits you would think "What a load of sh*te", but to us the so called pro's they were a damn good repair.

I would think that even the most inept tradesperson nowadays could carry out a more user friendly repair.

 

I'm not saying that the job would look good but at least I would be able to bend my foot, not have nails sticking up in the Insole and not get a mouthfull of abuse if the repair failed.

I expect that we who were at one time good at our jobs (and some who still are) expect others to produce the same quality without the intense training that we had.

[ironplanet uk900]

I believe repairs are of a higher standard nowerdays. customers expectations are higher, fashion designs etc. in the 50's customers wanted as much leather underfoot as poss, which doesn't make very attractive repairs. and the repair would usually fall apart through lack of flexabillity.

todays customers want their shoes to look like they did when they brought them.

I personally like to imitate the manucturers build of the shoe.

 

Hugh, I have a pair of riding boots from the late 1800's which I paid 50 quid for at a antique show. (how sad am I ) and the repair is sh1te. I'll take a pick and put it on the forum when I'm back after new year.

 

One thought, they made excellent shoes in those days, so why was the repairs so bad.

I know quite a few repairers in their 70's who think they are the dogs. but their repairs are awfull.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Hugh, I have a pair of riding boots from the late 1800's which I paid 50 quid for at a antique show.

 

Must have been the pair I forgot to collect in 1868 due to a bad cold

I have some beautifull adverts of shoes from the 40s, as you say, they made them good but the repair trade never quite matched the manufacturing.

 

Many competition repairers from the 50s were superb at Pin Point detail and getting a gloss to see your face in but the majority of the work was Clumped and nailed with brass rivets, perfection but not wearable.

 

The name of the game was WEAR, I still have a pair of ladies leather soles from the 50s somewhere, you cant bend them, they are solid just like plywood. We had to soak them overnight then let them mellow in damp sand for a day before we could use them. Try to cut them without mellowing them!! no chance, rock hard. Never wore out though so that was a bad marketing ploy.

 

Interested to see the Riding boots. I sold a ver old pair with trees in them about 30 years ago that someone wanted for a display. Got a pair of Boots last week that were made and repaired totally by rivets, very small feet they had in those days.

 

Happy New Year, I'm confined to quarters with flu like symptoms, legs gave way after 2 hours of symptoms starting yesterday morning.

Police will be picking up many drivers in the morning that will still be over the limit.

[Guest rich]

if the average manager earns 20k, what is the basik at the bottom of the scale? and is james wages incl at the top of the scale?

i too have just talked to a guy at merry hill who has just left timpson

and his basic was £267.00 bearing in mind he has been in the trade for nearly 20 years.

ok he cant be that good, but he tells me thats all they pay.

[james timpson]

a large proportion of our colleagues pay is bonus. this varies each week based on the turnover and the number of staff working in the branch. the most bonus earnt in a week is £924 in st albans! the more you sell the more you earn, it is the main driver in our business. last year we paid £7.8 million out in bonus to branch staff.

my wage is not included in the average (my wife will be pleased to know)

the guy on £267 a week is referring to net pay!

hope this helps.

[james timpson]

i forgot to mention that about 25% of those on the waiting list are experienced. alot of the time we prefer taking on those without shoe repair experience as they are often much easier to train! james

[Guest rich]

james timpson Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject:

 

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a large proportion of our colleagues pay is bonus. this varies each week based on the turnover and the number of staff working in the branch. the most bonus earnt in a week is £924 in st albans! the more you sell the more you earn, it is the main driver in our business. last year we paid £7.8 million out in bonus to branch staff.

my wage is not included in the average (my wife will be pleased to know)

the guy on £267 a week is referring to net pay!

hope this helps.

 

sorry james - the guy i have just talked to says it was his TOP line,,,.

also bonus was very rarely earned,

- i know most employees always critize former employers, but he is quite insistent. also says a lot more people have left than your quote, sorry - maybe they were sacked.

[james timpson]

sounds like he was sacked or is useless.............maybe both?! i am happy for anyone to audit our figures, we have to publish various ones as part of employment studies we do anyway. if you know me and our business we always state the truth! james

[ironplanet uk900]

i forgot to mention that about 25% of those on the waiting list are experienced. alot of the time we prefer taking on those without shoe repair experience as they are often much easier to train! james

 

How long do you think it takes to train someone in the shoe repair trade to a level were they are competant to repair customers shoes unwatched.

 

why do you think it is easier to train someone with no experience, than someone with.

I took someone on some years ago who was supposed to be qualified, He was awful I had to get rid of him because he couldn't change or improve. Is this what you mean James.

[Guest rich]

think maybe your right - BOTH .

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

From my experience there were a great deal of so called "Repairers" who were average trades persons but made no effort in getting to grips with other skills, particular the one that personally I find most important, CUSTOMER SKILLS !!!

Give me a raw recruit anyday, they dont have hang-ups or baggage.

 

As for wages, my theory is based upon Time & Motion, you work, I pay.

The harder you work the more I pay.

Give a person a decent wage as basic and there is no incentive to either work harder or inrease your profits.

Reachable targets, decent bonus rates on turnover ( I would pay out monthly as weekly figures are to easily manipulated) and a half yearly bonus on profitablilty of the shop.

 

Usually the person in a dead end shop not earning good money is there for a reason and it is usually their own doing, not always the case though as there are exceptions to the rule.

 

To summarize,

Good skills, good attitude = good money.

Wrong attitude, poor selling skills, no personality = Poor wages.

And that criteria should apply to all companies.

 

2 old sayings from my old tutor Hugh-Didit, He who maketh his Bed has to "Lie" in it.

And, Speed is of the essence la.

[ironplanet uk900]

The bonus system is the carot, and a good way to keep your staff on their toes. If your staff are after extra sales from their customers, they also need to give good customer service, which is also good for your company.

 

Still interested in the time scale in the training of a new repairer.

[james timpson]

our apprentice system is based on someone gaining six skills within the first 16 weeks; whether experienced or not. the six skills are ;

health and safety

customer service

repairs

keys

watch repairs

engraving

all basic stuff but enough so you are "useful"

thereafter it takes around 18 months plus to become "competent" on repairs, 12 months on keys and six months on the rest. after three years we hope you can run a shop on your own.

hope this helps

james

[ironplanet uk900]

I worked at Timpson when I was 14/15 as a saturday lad. When I left school I started full time. The training was good and the facilities were excellent, and I loved the job intensley. After 5 years I was approached by an International company to work for them, the pull was the extra money. I remember being disapointed that Timpsons didn't offer me a little more money to stay, As in my opinion I could skin & heel the manager at the time, who was in his 60's, moody,rude & not a very good repairer or key cutter.

However my new job was a relief manager on heel bars up and down the country, Boy I hated every minit of it. No blakes, outsolers, limited materials etc . Some of the staff they had were awfull.

 

I met your father a few times, he used to visit with Mr Walkerdine, the area manager at the time.

Good old days

Nice to know the staff training is still in place.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

The best training in my view is motivation,

Motivate.

Delegate.

Recouperate.

 

Motivate them to want to learn.

Delegate responsibility to them during learning.

Recouperate in the way of a good trainee producing profit.

 

And the cycle starts over again, get it wrong the 1st time and the bad habits get passed down the line for generations to come with very little chance of being corrected.

One of my old bosses once told me, "Now that you have passed all your tests and think you can do things right, start again at the bottom and learn someone elses methods, then another persons, then combine all the good points and ditch the bad ones, then you will be able to stand on your own 2 feet and have a method of your own that is the culmination of the experiences of all those who taught you".

[kobblers]

well put hugh i agree wholeheartedly with the entirety of your post.

rick.

[Hugh-Candoit (ENG)]

Thank you Rick for those comments.

 

As far as wages go when you are employed by a large company, wages are governed by skill levels, amongst those skills is speed and the ability to juggle. Juggling a multitude of jobs and customers at the same time is probably the hardest of all the skills to learn, get this right and combine those skills with the technical aspects of the jobs and you have a winner.

The winner takes the pot of gold every week.

 

Anyone who complains that their wages are crap can, in all probability draw a comparison with their performance.

If you work for someone else then you have to sow to reap, no seeds means no harvest.

If you do work for someone else and you are a top earner then it is you that will leave to seek advancement by opening up your own shop (if no promotion is on the cards). Anyone who has been involved in your training will take great pride in knowing that you are a product of that company and are a resounding success even though you would be leaving.

 

If you are down there amongst the bottom earners then you only have yourself to blame, every company of size will give you the opportunity to advance both your prospects and wages. Mentality and personality has a bearing here, moaners do not attract customers.

 

I can look into any service shop and can tell within 5 minutes if the staff are on good wages, it shows just like resentment and bitterness does.