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How to reduce the noise from a 700 finisher.


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noise is measured on a logarithmic scale, a reduction in noise of 3 dB(A), which seems small, is in fact the equivalent of halving the intensity of the noise. This would mean that the person could work for twice as long at the reduced level and have the same daily personal noise exposure as before.

 

My How to reduce the noise from your machine by 5db(A)

 

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700(2)s.jpg 700(12)s.jpg 700(13)s.jpg

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So, it's taken you 19 hours (at least), and cost £178.44.

Did the result justify the cost (in time & money)?

 

And is there any way that you would do things differently 'next time' ?

 

Here's some random thoughts:

 

Do you have anything under the machine to absorb sound - I've often wondered if a sheet of 6mm micro would help...

 

What is your floor made of - wooden floorboards or concrete?

 

In the pictures, there is nothing on the top of your machine, is this always the case, & would this have an impact?

 

I've got all sorts of bits & bobs on top of my machine - shoe stretchers, ink bottles, polish tins, aerosol cans, radio, CD rack, shoes in progress etc. How much do these add to the noise levels do you think, or don't they?

 

How much impact would something like the distance between the top of the machine & the ceiling make, for the noise to reverberate around.

And does ceiling type help? I've always assumed that my suspended ceiling will absorb more noise than a solid one.

 

Are there more questions than answers?

 

After 14 years in the trade, I've now started using ear protectors, and in the interests of having any hearing when I come to retire, I'll stick with them.

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So, it's taken you 19 hours (at least), and cost £178.44.

Did the result justify the cost (in time & money)?

 

Yes it cost a bit to do, and personally its difficult to say if the results justify the cost, it doesn’t sound a lot quieter, but I can now hear the phone! However as stated on the HSE website a reduction of just 3dB is in fact the equivalent of halving the intensity of the noise. The only other difference I have noticed it the machine has a much duller sound.

And is there any way that you would do things differently 'next time' ?
‘next time’ I probably wouldn’t do it again, it was following several years of gradual hearing loss and posts on the forum that promoted me to do it.

 

Here's some random thoughts:
:smt075 this should help.

 

Do you have anything under the machine to absorb sound - I've often wondered if a sheet of 6mm micro would help…

I do in fact have a sheet of 6mm micro under the machine, but this was put under when I first got the machine

 

What is your floor made of - wooden floorboards or concrete?

My shop is a former supermarket turned into 4 shop units, so my floor is a tiled concrete one.

 

In the pictures, there is nothing on the top of your machine, is this always the case, & would this have an impact?
I load the top of my machine with shoes during repair, for the purpose of the experiment I left this clear to get a consistent result.

 

I've got all sorts of bits & bobs on top of my machine - shoe stretchers, ink bottles, polish tins, aerosol cans, radio, CD rack, shoes in progress etc. How much do these add to the noise levels do you think, or don't they?
As with the last question I don’t have any thing on mine (always full of repairs)

 

How much impact would something like the distance between the top of the machine & the ceiling make, for the noise to reverberate around.

And does ceiling type help? I've always assumed that my suspended ceiling will absorb more noise than a solid one.

this would have a big impact, since sound travels they say in a hot air balloon you can hear people talking on the ground! Ceilings, floors, walls, and fittings all play a part in stopping the travelling sound. But again for this exercise I just concentrated on the machine itself, to see what if any thing any of us could do to reduce noise.

 

Are there more questions than answers?

 

After 14 years in the trade, I've now started using ear protectors, and in the interests of having any hearing when I come to retire, I'll stick with them.

And after 20 years in the trade (in May) I too have started wearing ear protectors, and now I have got used to them they are the best and cheapest way of reducing noise! And this is the bottom line to the whole job

WEAR EAR PROTECTION.

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My understanding of this legal requirement is that if you work at a machine for any length of time (say 20 mins) and your machine is 80-85db then you switch it off and dont go back to it for 10-15mins you are ok.

Now there seems to be a grey area about measurements is it 1 metre or 3 metres for readings, as it is only me who uses finisher in my shop I just need to put up a 3 metre exclusion zone for employees and Im safe??????

So I take it key machines are exempt from this study/legislation.

 

Looking at your meter readings for a busy street I would have to keep my door closed at all times as well?????

 

I employ someone so I have to assess the risk to them for hearing impairment does this also apply for my customers?????????

 

Who opened this can of worms??????

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Grey area,

 

I have to agree as far as the legislation its very grey. Have a look at the HSE web site and the maths that go along with working out readings, I doubt whether your average inspector from hse would know where to start with them...

The only reason I started on this project was for my own peace of mind and for the fun of seeing what could, if any be done! (I am a bit like that!)

 

Lee

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Very impressed with the tidyness of your work stations Lee, those machines dont look as though they have been used in years. Credit to you for keeping them in 1st class condition, probably the cleanest tidyest repair unit i have seen that has been open for more than 2 years.

 

I'm a tad worried over the air displacement at the back of the finisher as you seem to be enclosing the back, trapping the air inside the panels.

Is this the case or is it an illusion?

Methinks Kieth & Peter as the experts could comment here!

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I have vented the back cover, using gas flue vents brought from B&Q I have 3, giving slightly more area than the vents on the front of the machine. I figured that since the fan could only draw as much air as these would allow I didn't need more! I also faced them downwards to help point the sound away from the window behind my machine.

I have not noticed any loss in suction with this, although I dare say there has been!

 

My machines not always spotless, although I do keep it near the mark. but to allow the sound deadening panels to bond to the panels I spent a far amount of time cleaning the panels first. I had an article on cleaning the machine published in cutting edge a few copies ago, but key is methylated spirits to brake down the wax and car polish to clean it up good as new! my machine was the first BIG investment I made after starting out, I never forgot the day it arrived and although starting to show its age I am still proud of it so treat it to a clean up every few months!

 

Lee

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Nice to hear that story Lee, pity more folk dont take as much pride.

 

Meths eh!!!

Goog product for removing Ball point pen ink from bags and shoes.

Use a cotton bud soaked in meths, twisting it round on the spot if its just a small mark. Made a small fortune cleaning old ladies White Handbags that they used for resting their Bingo Cards on in the 60s/70s, now they use marker pens and white plastic handbags are few and far between.

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wow - lots of things here. noise reduction, as you have found and i have said for a long time reducing even 1 decibel is a large step. bands can make as much difference as spending 100s of pounds - specially 40mm to 75mm wide bands. noise reduction can be a complicated process as you have to find where the noise is coming from - it is not always the mchine where the noise comes from. noise is like water, it flows until it hits something and deflects so if it hits a sponge (sound reduction material) it is absorbed, if it hits a hard surface it is bounced. this can mean that you can reduce noise considerably by placing sound absorbtion material on the wall behind the machine and also in your counter of all places! without complete redustion of noise at source (not possible) you have to identify where the noise is coming from and absorb it, have a listen around and see where you think the noise appears to be coming from, stick some micro there temporarily and see how you get on. the hse guidelines are very technical and you can reduce 90db to 80db easily by turning your machine off because the readings are average ones over a period of time!! they are meant more for factories etc where machines are constantly running. ear defenders are considered as PPP (personal protective equipment) which is a last resort in noise reduction but allowable after all other measures are recorded as having been taken so if your machine is noisier than most and you have taken reasonable steps to reduce noise then you are ok to use defenders or plugs.

as for boxing the dust area this is a bit of a no no, lee may seem ok but he has just fitted a new bag so will see an increase anyway. good ventilation is required for airflow and if you think noise needs reducing here then stick sound reducing material to the wall leaving the gap behind the machine, noise will travel in a straight line and be absorbed.

 

the key always to h&s is to record any actions taken with machines even as far as recording you have emptied the dust trays to prove you are taking reasonable steps to reduce both noise and dust levels. it may be a nuisance to everyone but paperwork is very good evidence when/if things go wrong. paper is better than the spoken work always, ask a judge or solicitor. in a first aid environment it is called the audit trail and everyone should leave one at all times, proof proof proof.

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Peter,

 

I appreciate that placing an enclosure around the dust bag may be considered a ‘No No’ however I like to think out side the box!.:smt031 but as with any modification to any product its all about compromise!

 

If you want a better handling car you reduce ride quality. If you want an extension on your house your reduce garden size.

 

For the purpose of this experiment some compromising has to take place! However to compensate from the original standard of my own equipment (reduced extraction from an old dust bag) I fitted a new bag, which has still resulted in increased extraction.:smt110

Incidentally through doing this and cleaning all panels I really noticed just how well this old machine was build and designed, there is a saying if it isn’t broke then don’t try to fix it, whoever old designs either need replacing or modernising at some point to keep them up to current standards or legislation.

 

What is the recommended distance from a 700 to a wall to allow maximum air flow? :smt120

 

Lee

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Great effort mate. However, I have 2 concerns here, one, covering that bag will reduce the amount of air relaeased from the bag, therefore, reducing the amount of air being sucked in at the port. By restricting the air exiting the bag, you will in effect' choke' the fan. So instead of the air being sucked in and cleanly flowing through the fan into the bag, you will corrupt the airflow. Please reconsider this mod :wink:

 

Two, the greatest source of noise on any finisher is usually eminating from the bands, with the 24 grit 75mm band being the main culprit. My suggestion of changing this for a 40 grit band was meant to assist you in dropping the db rating a small amount. I woulb be interested to know what your readings would have been had you just experimented with the bands and no soundproofing!

 

As I have mentioned before, we as a Company, have been down this road and given the varied applications and positions of our machines, decided that we have to look at every installation differntly and judge them on their merits.

 

I hope this has been of some assitance! All be it a little late :wink:

 

Keith

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Its been interesting doing this, not only from reading members comments but from just doing it!

I am always up to things like this, always! it was rather strange doing something like this on a public arena! normally I keep these things to my self :wink:

 

this week I am starting on a new cctv system using my computer! bring on the cables!

 

Lee

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