EU referendum

[Lee]

Lets see what our views are ahead of the referendum, if you delete your vote you can re-vote should you change your opinion as the debate continues.

[Lee]

"leave" is looking strong.

[MAW]

How on earth do you make your mind up as there are compelling pros and cons on both sides of the debate (argument). Just yesterday I thought I'd look to see what our local MP, who happens to have moved up in the world since I last checked to junior government minister level is lobbying. Lo and behold he has not declared!

 

Just two examples below of how things have/may affect me domestically and with my small business, one for each side of the coin.

 

So with my family man hat on living in SE London, my 21 YO son and his girlfriend, both with ok jobs are totally priced out of the London & SE England housing market are moving up to the North East. I put this down to an unchecked immigration policy and one that if we leave may eventually improve.

 

With my small business hat on and as a direct importer of sport medals from China and indirect importer of overseas made trophies/components from UK wholesalers, I see the Sterling/Dollar exchange rate has plummeted (although has recovered a little in recent days) since DC came back from his European bargaining with very little. If the prospect of European departure causes such market uncertainty before leaving, what will the exchange rate do if it turns into a reality? All of us acquiring goods from abroad are likely to pay heavily is my view, how long will that last?

 

So I guess for me it could be down to a coin toss. Interested in hearing the opinion of others within the forum as I can't trust Politician’s and Jurno's as far as they can be thrown.

 

Cheers, Mart

Supreme Engraving Awards UK &

SupremeMedals.Co.UK

[Stormwelt]

With my small business head on I think it's got to be in for me. No one knows exactly what trade tariffs/barriers the EU will put in place if we exit. Immigration has the headlines but it's the hoops the EU could make us jump through to continue to trade with them once we are outside. As an example, Norway is not an EU member state, but for its companies to be allowed to trade with the EU it has to adhere to every one of the EU employment laws. No exceptions, every one of them. So if we leave they could impose that on us just to let us have access to the market and we would have no negotiating power from the inside.

Volatility in the currency market would cost us dearly on goods imported from the EU. Most of the materials we use are produced in the EU. To cover this prices will have to be raised to cover any fluctuations in the value of sterling.

Also administration headaches will abound. We should never underestimate the ease with which we can move goods around the 'common market'. Remember when it was called that? It's how it all started, as a common trading association. It has change and morphed into an overarching political and judicial behemoth that has interfered with most aspects of our lives and a gravy train for the likes of Nigel Farage and co.

I work in this trade because I love it and it will be affected by this vote.

Also I have another business in which I have to deal with manufacturers in Spain, Italy, a company in Germany that has its production in Portugal. I dread to think what the red tape would be for this. But still believe as a whole we are better in. And the visas I would have to get to visit these places. People scoff but they have the power to do it.

Just think about the two weeks in the med. Spain, Italy, Greece. South of France. All will be a lot more expensive.

I think I may have just signed my own death warrant on here

But hey ho

Fiat justicia et periat Mundas.

[MAW]

Thanks Stomwelt for your view, I had to look your Latin quote up......Let justice be done, though the world perish. Brings into question who might lead this fair land if its an out vote. With Corbyn on the far left and whoever on the far right would the Tory party survive?

[elfman]

just ask yourselves one simple question when did the uk start going downhill  answer possably in the early 70s now the next questions shouldbe what happened in the early anwer we went decimal and joined the eu is that a coincidence or what  as for trade we traded with the wole world before joining the eu then when we joined we were restricted in haow much trade we did with the likes of Australia and new Zealand

[Stormwelt]

The future Frederick the Great of Prussia was told this by his father just before his father had poor Freddie's tutor executed for falling in love with Freddie. The fuller translation is...and justice shall be done even if the whole world would perish in the act. One of my favourite quotes from history. Shall we start a favourite quotes from history thread? Brilliant that you actually looked it up though. Thank you! Latin is alive and well MAW.

To get back to the discussion. We would not be able to export to the rest of the world as economically as we can with Europe. Australasia doesn't have the population to take up the free trade slack caused by loss of free trade in Europe. No country but China could and we are already exporting greater quantities of high end goods to them. The British mark is highly regarded and sort after in China and elsewhere in the Far East. This will not change in or out but is not, in my opinion, a reason to leave. The US will not give us a special relation discount on import duties. They are seriously trying to quell imports to support their own balance of payments. I don't see where we will get the markets we now have that will be so easily accessible. But each to his own conscience and we live and die by the majwority view. That's what our forfathethers fought for and fought well!!!

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.......

We all know that one?

[kobblers]

Elfman's got it in one.

 

There's plenty of evidence to show how much better we will be as a nation if we leave the EU - you just have to find it as most of the media won't tell you the truth.

 

https://leave.eu/en/the-facts

 

http://grassrootsout.co.uk/who-we-are

 

You also have to ask yourself: What's in it for those who want to remain - especially the politicians and bankers?

 

And: Why are so many big hitters from various political parties prepared to be non-partisan in this and actually stand together for a change to spread the OUT message for the good of the country?

 

Turkey look set to join the EU in the future and that makes me really nervous, especially as they have been proven, by the Russians, to be complicit in allowing ISIS unfettered passage through their country. 

 

Rick.

[Stormwelt]

Turkey has just been given a huge amount of blank EU passports as a sweetener for keeping refugees. No one knows who they are going to give them to. ISIS is an obvious recipient. So are all the criminals and gangsters Turkey want rid of. If these people have EU passports they will have no trouble getting into the UK whether we are in or out of the EU.

[elfman]

not if border control was doing its job  plus if out of the eu  they can come for holidays but not work unless they apply for work permit and visa

[Mike at Vauxhall]

In many ways it's similar to the Scottish referendum.

The no saying scaremongering by saying we are too weak to go it alone.

The yes camp saying we are strong enough, and it's more than just that.

It's also close like the Scottish referendum. But also I believe lots of people saying out now will bottle it at the ballot box and vote to stay in. ( better the devil you know.)

I'm voting out.

[hibsjo(SCO)]

stonger together

new powers if we stay in........

ive heard that before 

its a recurring nightmare

carry on!

[kobblers]

The EU's law-making process is fundamentally undemocratic. Power is vested in the unelected and unaccountable elite who make laws - in secret - to preserve the status of large multinationals at the expense of small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). Multinationals achieve their preferential status by spending enormous sums of money on lobbying. They create a complicated regulatory framework, which only large companies with their Human Resources departments can comply with. This drives small competitors out of business, destroys competition and encourages monopolies, forcing the consumer to pay a higher price for poorer quality goods and services.

There are four key institutions of the EU: the European Commission, European Parliament, European Council and the Court of Justice of the EU. Each institution supposedly represents separate interests. The Commission represents the EU, the Parliament represents the people, the Council represents the Governments of each Member State and the Court interprets the law. However, these institutions do not do this in practice, as they all represent large multinationals and an integrationist agenda, as the intention is to create a federal United States of Europe. This new country already has a flag, a Parliament, an anthem, Presidents, currency, a legal system, legal status and a navy - to name just a few. 

The EU Commission is the guardian of the treaties and enforces EU law. More importantly, this means it is the Government of Europe which has the sole right to propose the laws which increasingly encroach on our lives here in Britain. 

The Commission is made up of 28 unelected commissioners, who cannot be held to account. Each commissioner has a specific policy area in which to create laws. The Commission has a President (currently Jean-Claude Juncker); unlike the other 27 commissioners he is personally elected by the European Parliament, however his was the only name on the ballot paper, not exactly democratic. The Commission is advised by the Directorate General, which along with the Commission is heavily lobbied. Once the Commission proposes an EU law, this proposal is taken to the Parliament.

Secondly, the Parliament is made up of 751 MEPs who are elected by the people in EU Member States every five years in elections. National parties arrange themselves into European groups of similar parties throughout Europe. It also has a President (currently Martin Schulz) who was voted in by the Parliament, but once again he was the only candidate. Theoretically, the Parliament has the ability to remove the Commission; however the Parliament has never successfully been able to remove it - even when the Commission has been full of corrupt cronies. The Parliament didn't even remove the commission of 2004 to 2009 which was full of questionable characters. This Commission included Siim Kallas the Anti-Fraud Commissioner who was given this role despite being charged with fraud, abuse of power and providing false information after £4.4million disappeared while he was head of Estonia's national bank.

This is not a Parliament in any real sense, as they have no right to propose laws. Instead it is a façade, created to make the EU look democratic, rather than give the public a choice over those who makes their laws. The Parliament does vote and can make amendments on laws proposed by the Commission, but the Commission must accept any of the amendments proposed for the changes to become effective, showing where the power lies. 

Additionally, once something becomes an EU law, the Parliament has no ability to propose a change to this law. All the power is given to the Commission. It is clear the public's elected representatives do not matter in the EU. It's a 'club' to push through laws which would be rejected by national Parliaments. Once the Parliament approves an EU proposal, it is sent to the European Council. 

The European Council - sometimes called The Council - is the meeting of the Member States. It is called the European Council when the leaders of each Member State are in attendance, and The Council when it's the ministers for the policy area being discussed attending. This is the final hurdle any European proposal has to pass in order to become law. Decision-making at this stage is done almost entirely by Qualified Majority Voting. This means the UK Government can vote against a proposal and as long as it receives enough votes from the other Member States it becomes law in the UK anyway. The UK only has a veto to prevent EU laws impacting the UK in a very minor number of areas. If the European Council/Council approves proposals, they become EU law. They will be in the form of EU regulations or directives. If they are regulations the new EU law applies to all Member States without any of those states having to pass legislation in their own home Parliaments. If they are directives, the national Parliaments are forced to change their national laws within a specific time limit to comply with EU law - whether they want to or not.

Finally, the Court of Justice of the EU is supposed to interpret EU laws to ensure they comply with the EU treaties. Unfortunately, it does not do this. It happily ignores the treaties when it wants to if the EU is pushing its own federalist agenda. This is not a court like we have in this country; it is a kangaroo court wilfully ignoring the rule of law, as it did with the bailouts which should have been deemed illegal. The treaties clearly stated bailouts were illegal, but as the bailouts helped to prop up the failing Eurozone project, the EU court allowed them anyway.

The EU is a highly undemocratic organisation ratcheting more and more power with every passing day. It is impervious to public opinion. The people who matter in the law-making process are unelected and therefore unaccountable. The only way to secure genuine democratic control over our own law makers is to Get Britain Out of the EU by voting to leave in the EU referendum on the 23rd June.

 

Copied from The Huffington Post.

 

Rick.

[kobblers]

Bear with me.

This is a list of what we, the British, have given to the world through our own ingenuity, doggedness, self-belief, and we did it all by our little selves:

 

Reflecting telescope: Isaac Newton, 1668

 

Seed drill: Jethro Tull, 1701

 

Marine chronometer: John Harrison, 1761

 

Spinning frame: Richard Arkwright, 1768

 

Toothbrush: William Addis, c. 1770

 

Soda water: Joseph Priestley, 1772

 

Hydraulic press: Joseph Bramah, 1795

 

Steam engine: Richard Trevithick, 1801

 

Glider: George Cayley, 1804

 

Tension-spoked wheel: George Cayley, 1808

 

Tin can: Peter Durand, 1810

 

Modern fire extinguisher: George William Manby, 1818

 

Electric motor: Michael Faraday, 1821

Waterproof material: Charles Macintosh, 1823

 

Cement: Joseph Aspdin, 1824

 

Passenger railway: George Stephenson, 1825

 

Lawnmower: Edwin Beard Budding, 1827

 

Photography: William Henry Fox Talbot, 1835

 

Electric telegraph: Charles Wheatstone & William Cooke, 1837

 

Chocolate bar: JS Fry & Sons, 1847

 

Hypodermic syringe: Alexander Wood, 1853

 

Synthetic dye: William Perkin, 1856

 

Bessemer process: Henry Bessemer, 1856

 

Linoleum: Frederick Walton, 1860

 

Sewage system: Joseph Bazalgette, 1865

 

Modern Torpedo: Robert Whitehead, 1866

 

Telephone: Alexander Graham Bell, 1876

 

Light Bulb: Joseph Swan, 1880

 

Steam turbine: Charles Parsons, 1884

 

Safety bicycle: John Kemp Stanley, 1885

 

Pneumatic tyre: John Boyd Dunlop, 1887

 

Thermos flask: Sir James Dewar, 1892

 

Electric vacuum cleaner: Hubert Cecil Booth, 1901

 

Disc Brakes: Frederick William Lanchester, 1902

 

Stainless Steel: Harry Brearley, 1913

 

Military tank: Ernest Swinton, 1914

 

Television: John Logie Baird, 1925

 

Catseye: Percy Shaw, 1933

 

Jet Engine: Frank Whittle, 1937

 

Electronic programmable computer: Tommy Flowers, 1943

 

Hovercraft: Christopher Cockerell, 1953

 

Automatic kettle: Peter Hobbs, 1955

 

Float Glass: Alastair Pilkington, 1959

 

Hip Replacement: John Charnley, 1962

 

Carbon fibre: Royal Aircraft Establishment engineers, 1963

 

Collapsible baby buggy: Owen Maclaren, 1965

 

ATM: John Shepherd-Barron, 1967

 

World Wide Web: Tim Berners-Lee, 1989

 

Wind-up radio: Trevor Baylis, 1991

 

Steri-spray: Ian Helmore, c. 2008

 

 

 

50 reasons why we won't suffer if we leave the EU. The scaremongers are all trying to imply that we wouldn't be able to stand on our own two feet if we left - I think that particular list shows that we've always been great at providing for ourselves (and the rest of the world), encouraging innovation and being strong and independent. We don't need EU babysitters to tell us what good little children we are - we are an adult nation and we are capable of going our own way and being strong - it's simply part of being British and part of our inherent culture.

 

Please share for those who are being beaten into submission through fear.

 

Rick.

 

[Gray]

Exactly......................What have the Romans ever done for us?

 

[kobblers]

The Romans only gave what we would have eventually figured out for ourselves

 

Rick.

[grahamparker]

Got my government (tax payer funded) stay leaflet this morning.

 

Didn't read it just ripped it up and put it in the recyling bin.

 

Why are they giving us a free vote then trying to convince us to stay and wasting 9.3 million into the bargain.

[StevenB]

Saw a post on FB this morning, saying the leaflets should be sent back as follows:

 

When David Cameron's leaflet arrives in the next 2 or 3 days ( Yes, it's already printed .... by a German printing company) .. . If you send it back to this address, the Conservative party gets billed for the postage.

Just a thought.

 

Attn: Joanna George

Freepost RSBB-XRZT-ZTXE

The Conservative Party Foundation

30 Millbank

LONDON

SW1P 4DP

[StevenB]

I'm still firmly in the undecided camp BTW...

[kobblers]

Come, join the Dark Side, Steven - you know ya wanna...............

 

 

Rick.

[Lee]

I feel the BBC are bios towards reporting for a stay in the EU. I watch some report today where a new "EU" law had been passed (I can't even remember what it was!) that was in our favour and the whole report they where emphasising the words "EU" "Brussels" "European" NOTICABLY got on my pips a bit.

[Broms Cobb]

I feel the BBC are bios towards reporting for a stay in the EU. I watch some report today where a new "EU" law had been passed (I can't even remember what it was!) that was in our favour and the whole report they where emphasising the words "EU" "Brussels" "European" NOTICABLY got on my pips a bit.

I think your right Lee,

they seem to be trying to 'Brainwash' the country and treat us like were children

If you time each article covered by the BBC you will notice a substantial difference on how much air time that is dedicated to this seems very unfair - the BBC should be sold off and made to be independent - only then would it be unbiased

[kobblers]

Here's why

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12059280/BBC-has-received-2m-in-EU-funding-in-run-up-to-referendum-fueling-accusations-of-bias.html

 

Rick.

[Lee]

I'm always nice about our sponsors, but know I can't treat you the members as idiots, the truth will always come out. its the same with the referendum. the government & establishments forget that with social media the way it is the population are more than capable of drawing an informed decision that they are happy with, which ever way it goes.

I'm also annoyed at the pamphlet I had to pay for from the government giving another Bios view. it should have given reasons for either decision I choose to make.

[kobblers]

I posted mine back to Tory HQ using the freepost

 

Rick.