Ray T. Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hi I think if I am reading right(sometimes your terms are different)and seeing right it looks like for the contest you first put a full sole then a half so the shank would be new.If thats true ,then in the contest here they would just return your entry shoes back to you without scoring.Whats the point of doing that when theres no way in the world you would do it that way in real life.While I am at it I have also noticed that you guys never seem to numkeeg from the shank back to the base.It seem so me when theres marks or dents from stones that you would want to soften the effect by numkeeging plus it takes the stain and or ink better.Again I am not trying to unmake any friends but just noticing little details that differ across the ocean. Ray Torcaso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 it looks like for the contest you first put a full sole then a half so the shank would be new.If thats true ,then in the contest here they would just return your entry shoes back to you without scoring.Whats the point of doing that when theres no way in the world you would do it that way in real life. Ray Torcaso I totally agree, and so do others on the forum. To me the judging is not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kam Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 totally agree, we do knaumkeg the waist - but in the competition would not! i have worked with many repairers (relief duties) and every one thinks they no best! as long as the finished job is acceptable (none corners cut) i tend to think it ok and just get above average finish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 There are much better ways Ray than kegging the "wiast" as we call it (shank in your words). The onyl reason this area is replaced is so that a uniform finish is able to be acheived through the whole sole, both in colour and composition. It is much harder to do than a normal half sole as the original materials have to be totally removed and rebuilt from scratch. Some do not like it, some find it difficult to do, some object after the competition is over but they all have the same opportunity. My guess is that after seeing last years entries in great detail there will be a 100% increase in this years competition. There will always be sceptics whatever way is chosen, whatever material is used, whoever sponsors the event, whoesoever wins, etc etc. MY answer is that you cant please everyone all the time and the competition has to be geared to those who pay for it, otherwise there will be no competitions capable of sending the right message to the general public. I have been involved in competitions for over 50 years and have seen many changes and change has to come at some point or we would still be judging Riveted Waists. Throughout the whole of these 50 years I have never complained about anything to do with the competition and always tried to get better than those who beat me. It develops a sense of inventiveness to get one step ahead of the rest, but when you get there there are the guys you beat complaining about some aspect of the job. It's always been that way and I think always will. I for my part try to encourage folk to take an interest but it falls on deaf ears most of the time, still, I get myself up, dust myself down and start all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x minit uk Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I took part in the compy and did not get anywhere, but now I know you have to put a thru sole on first to make the waist look good the next one will be no probs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Ah, see, someones twigged what to do Bet they alter the specification for the next one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T. Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hi Hugh what better way to clean the pas from the shank joint back to the heel breast than the numkeeg or other sanding.You are trying to pretty up the original shoe are you not?It seems some of you make it sound like a sin if you keg the shank.Not everyone likes the look of a halfmoon or any ink on the shank for that matter.I am all for learning and sharing here so thats why I post. Ray Torcaso P.S. If theres a better looking way than post me a picture! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 HiHugh what better way to clean the pas from the shank joint back to the heel breast than the numkeeg or other sanding.You are trying to pretty up the original shoe are you not?It seems some of you make it sound like a sin if you keg the shank.Not everyone likes the look of a halfmoon or any ink on the shank for that matter.I am all for learning and sharing here so thats why I post. Ray Torcaso P.S. If theres a better looking way than post me a picture! Cant post pics Ray as I am retired. Kegging makes concentric circles all over the area kegged, yes I agree it does clean the area up but we are talking about contest shoes and marks from sanding would be detrimental. Personally I am against all forms of Ink & Paint on the sole area as this can cover a multitude of sins, half moons in particular can hide a bad graft. If you want a perfect finish in the area between the graft and the heel the best way I can describe it is to mask the new sole and heel with masking tape and take the shoe to a Custom Car repairer and ask them to show you how to get the old area like new. Noiw although you may see it done and it may look easy, practice and perfection can be painfully slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Ray, why not post up some pictures of your repairs, it would be interesting to see differences in the ways we do things. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T. Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Lee Are you nuts!My TV and VCR I have are still flashing 12.My dad always told people if it doesn't look like a shoe we know nothing about it.My son has a digital camera so maybe I can get him sometime to take a picture but geez I don't even know how to load it on the computer.I did send Peter a picture of a pair of boots I made but thats because it was already loaded on the computer and I think it sent out in a big format.I really wasn't talking about contest shoes as much as everyday work. Ray Torcaso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I was offering information that was applicable to contest shoes only Ray. Kegging is fine for normal customers shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironplanet uk900 Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Kegging is cosmetic only, something I do on the odd accasion. Hugh can you tell me how Riveting is viewed by the judges. And Ray, do you rivet the waist, if not, why not. carry on..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hugh can you tell me how Riveting is viewed by the judges. And Ray, do you rivet the waist, if not, why not. carry on..... 2 good questions. Question 1. You have to read the rules to each individual competition, if points were awarded for the Riveting Waists on the score sheet then it would make sense to rivet the waists. Points would be awarded for neatness, spacing depth/flush/type as well as the normal points for the graft. Anyone not riveting would not get any of these extra available points. As the old addage goes "points make Prizes" These is a very fine art in being able to rivet shoes, be it in the waist or as a design and I would now at this stage inroduce rivet marking to open the competition up more, all the entries are now following the same pattern and although the winning shoes are 1st class it is getting a little boring seeing the same format year after year. Question 2. Interesting to see if they still do this in the US or in fact if they do half soles, same would apply for Australia and New Zealand and the Bahamas. Have they all followed our job spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T. Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Hey guys When I first started out 38 years ago my grandfather and my dad both nailed the shanks always.I hated it when they came back for another set of soles because it would tear around the nails and the insole would either crack or if the guy walked heavy the insole around the nails would wear lower causing the nails to stick out farther.When I asked my dad why we nail he told me because in his day they used either rubber or press cement because the cost factor then was use enough to hold it until stitching was done.I however after the first few years stopped and never looked back sense.With todays glues which by the way have been around when I started theres no reason to nail when the shank is prepared right.Nothing but nothing looks amateurish then nailing the shank.It ugly and doesn't belong in a first class shop period.As I have stated before we all have had at some point a shank that has failed but like I said before ,sometimes you can do everything right but still fail.You guys see what happens to me when you burn me at the stake. Ray Torcaso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 What do you mean Ray "see what happens when you burn me" I thought we did that yesterday Who was that bloke we burned alive then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobblers Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 you mean the crispy looking guy smoking away in the corner hugh? health and safety'll be after him fer breaking the law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh-Candoit (ENG) Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Did you see him or was it just the smell? Must get a new Air Freshener. Anyone want any Pork Crackling cheap, ready bagged. Best quality Stewing Steak $1 a pound. Fillet Steak $5 a pound. Guaranteed not to taste like Leather soles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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